[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garret Jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't need a cable demo, I need a link to the part of the USB specification where it says real-time data does not have to be 100% accurate. It's not that I think you're all full of hot air, but I would like to see some definitive evidence, and only relevant sections of the USB spec would qualify here. Otherwise it's just so much hearsay.

Just read section on
Isochronous Transfers

 

[Garret Jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyrodec /img/forum/go_quote.gif Garret - I personally have serious doubts a USB cable can sound different, but there is a clear difference between streamed audio and data moved to an external HD. For streamed audio the digital clock is sent encoded in the timing of the data pulses. If there is noise, the clean transient edge of the signal will be degraded and this WILL add jitter to the clock part of the signal. Block mode data transfer, as used by HDs, obviously does not have any clock part and so is much more robust from a noise stand-point. The EMU 0404 USB DAC also uses a bluck-mode scheme, and that might be one of the reasons so many people think it sound great. Does the timing jitter from a cheap USB cable produce audiable affects - ??? Does an expensive USB cable actually provide better noise surpression and hence lower jitter - ??? Does the lower jitter give you better sound - ??? However, there is a real difference between data transfer and streaming audio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just read section on Isochronous Transfers

Thanks guys!

 

[nd4speed]

I imagine those cables with Ferrite donuts on them are indicative of a cable with inadequate shielding to begin with. I personally avoid those.

I find it difficult to swallow paying big bucks for those after-market USB cables that I know have standard run of the mill stranded copper conductors and the shielding that is more for "cosmetic" purposes.

Can anyone that has done A/B listening tests between a "good" (preferably clear with foil/braid shielding you can see) but reasonably priced, off the shelf USB cable and an after-market "boutique" cable chime in about SQ differences?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavoman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quaddy is right, and Steve (Empirical) is right -- it's not just a "school of thought", it is a strong suggestion from the USB spec folks. I have posted this in other threads, sorry to repeat, from usb.org: Q. What are the most common signal quality design mistakes? A: Signal Quality is a mandatory test. See the signal quality test description for details. Most problems are the result of EMI "control" components like ferrite beads mounted on the signal lines. Often, these manage to destroy the integrity of the signal as well as make emissions worse. from: USB.org - USB FAQ Kimber has ferrite beads. Some Bekin's have it too. A reasonable price line Newnex does not, and Newnex has been certified by usb.org. See my first answer to the OP for a link to buy. Before I knew all this I bought the Kimber. It sounds identical to the Newnex, so the beads don't hurt it. But it did cost me 3 times as much. It's not that beads will hurt for sure, but usb.org suggests controlling EMI without using them, so it upsets me that Kimber did resort to them. That's all. No logic here, just emotion. But $15 cable sounded as good as $45. I have a $1 cable that sounds poor, btw, so not all cables sound the same. The $1 cable has beads, but it looks and feels like the junk it is.

That's because it most likely is (a standard OEM USB cable, albeit with cryo treatment).
Quote:

Originally Posted by DefectiveAudioComponent /img/forum/go_quote.gif That cryo cable (the middle one) looks exactly like the stock 0404USB usb cable.

 

[Quaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nd4speed /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's because it most likely is (a standard OEM USB cable, albeit with cryo treatment).

definitely, cryo-parts doesnt pretend otherwise, they literally take a well made usb cable and add ers paper and carbon fibre shielding.

when i receeve the cryo-parts shielded cable i will gladly document any improvements over bog standard cables, if any.

i am experiencing dropouts ATM with the standard cable, which is causing the dac1 to lose its signal via usb and flashing with front panel diagnostic errors until it goes into standby, which is occasionally disrupting my listening

i as quite sure i have near field interference from various power supplies running in close quarters to my rig so this is why i am after carbon/ers shielded cable for DAC1 and also after ERS paper to cover the more sensitive devices to see if it improves chain stability

we'll see...

 

[nd4speed]

Great, thanks Quaddy; looking forward to see how it fairs in your setup.

 

[lbcliff]

Expecting A/B test.

 

[Quaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbcliff /img/forum/go_quote.gif Expecting A/B test.

say again ?

 

[lbcliff]

Quaddy, expecting your comparison between cryo-parts and standard one

 

[Quaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbcliff /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quaddy, expecting your comparison between cryo-parts and standard one

oh righ no prob, i thought you may be doing an A/B yourself!

just as soon as the bits in my sig all go dark grey, meaning i have them

then i can crack on, the cryo was shipped a good few days ago now, but can take 10 days coming to U.K, with customs.

even when i receive the USB i am not going to do the A/B as i am using horrendous veiled sen hd555 at the moment, and want to wait for my denons, in the next fortnight hopefully.

if i can honestly determine a beneficial difference, either in stability from dropouts or sound, both idealy, then i may see about getting hold of the tricon usb and see if its a load of bullshine!

 

[lbcliff]

Cheers Quaddy

 

[obobskivich]

to be honest, USB is like digital audio (I don't think cables make a difference in any audio system, especially digital, let me qualify with that), it either works or it doesn't, period

meaning avoid the super cheap cables that don't work, as a result of no shielding, or other crap like that, but the cables will not provide coloration to the sound, as its a digital signal being passed end to end (if you can hear a difference, well, from an IT and computer science standpoint, its impossible)

granted I'm not saying buyin lamp cord or a $1 POS cable, but I'm saying that $50+ is wasteful

 

[fjf]

I'm sure there is a cryo-usb ca

 

[Quaddy]

we arent talking about coloration, like a normal IC, if you read the thread its more to do with are there different qualities and more robust cables out there?, that can do the job better!

i recently re-wired my internal telephone lines with cat6, an NTE5 triple diode faceplate utilizing the master port and my broadband estimate survey ( before moving in and after ) jumped from 1mbit to 5mbit! so qualities of cabling do indeed make a difference to 'digital' streams

please only state that $50 is wasteful if you have tried one and know that yourself, dont just assume the outcome based on your own biases/opinions, this is what am awaiting to 'judge' to myself, and will not be so proud as to tell people if indeed it is all snake oil - if so, then i can come and "x2" your post

p.s how do you feel about the $800 tricon usb cable?

 

[fjf]

Double post!

 

[Chri5peed]

The rule is to get an 'equals' cable rather than a 'negative' cable. No such thing as a 'plus' cable.

What I mean is to get a cable able to transmit a signal with no loss. None boost the signal[this'd be the non-existant 'plus' cable].