[coco]

I recently sold my HF-1s and replaced them with DT880s. I don't regret the change at all but now I realize one of the biggest improvements is having the circumaural experience. The advantages are pretty straight forward:
1) Comfort, the circum's can be worn for hours if you don't mind the heat, the supra's comfort always seems to be a topic of complaint
2) Listening Experience, with the supra's I have owned I always felt I was listening to music through headphones. I wasn't really aware of this until I spent some time with the 880s. Don't get me wrong, their sound can be great but the headphone-as-source is so much more present with the supra's.
3) Soundstage, as far as my limited experience goes, I would say that everything else being equal, the circum's would always have a more defined stage and image because of their position around the ears.

As far as the Supra's go. The only advantage I can think of is portability. Which, no doubt, is major if that is their intended purpose. My question is this: Why would high-end phones be supraaural, is there something I am missing?

PS. In answer to your first question, yes I do regret not trying the HF-1s with C-pads.
PPS. Grado is probably the most common (only?) high-end Supra phone but I do remember seeing a pic of Grado Jr with his kids wearing circum phones

 

[shplorgh]

Because that's the way Grado's are designed?

That's like saying "why are there tube amps?"

 

[coco]

Of course not. Not being a tube amp aficionado I can't say, but I am sure if you ask one they would outline the advantages of a tube over solid state amp. I don't think they would respond with your answer, because that is the way they are designed. Why does every thread about grado end up being and "us vs. them". I loved the HF-1s...I am just interested in the advantages, if any, of a supraural phone.

 

[Ikon]

Supra-aural is a no-go for me -> if the comfort isn't OK, I couldn't care less about the sound.

I file Grado making only supra-aural headphones under "John Grado's eccentricities" - it's love 'em or hate 'em.

 

[shplorgh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by coco Of course not. Not being a tube amp aficionado I can't say, but I am sure if you ask one they would outline the advantages of a tube over solid state amp. I don't think they would respond with your answer, because that is the way they are designed. Why does every thread about grado end up being and "us vs. them". I loved the HF-1s...I am just interested in the advantages, if any, of a supraural phone.

It's not "us vs them", it's just the facts.

When you had Grados, did you ever put your hands over the cups? It distorts the sound horribly. They were clearly meant to be used in the enclosure made for them. It's the same as the tube/ss argument: tubes are less convinient, but are still used for many reasons.

If you really want to get the facts straight, why not call up John and ask him?

 

[socrates63]

I think it's a good question. Any headphone gearheads care to explain the sonic pro's and con's of circumaural headphone design versus a supraaural design?

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungrych When you had Grados, did you ever put your hands over the cups? It distorts the sound horribly.

Doesn't that apply to most open phones in general, regardless of being circum or supra?

Anyways, I always seem to associate a larger soundstage (not necessarily headstage) with a cirum phone. Makes sense if you think about it, but I've never tried every supra, so this is just a thought.

 

[Skylab]

Grados still sound good as circumaural cans, maybe even better. I had Headphile convert my HF-1's to Circumaural with C-Pads, and they sound awesome, and are now super-comfy. Before that I could not wear the HF-1's comfortably at all.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by coco I recently sold my HF-1s and replaced them with DT880s. I don't regret the change at all but now I realize one of the biggest improvements is having the circumaural experience. The advantages are pretty straight forward:

I don't see how this is a valid evaluation except in the most general of ways. You're comparing two completely different headphones. There's a lot more defining their acoustic signatures than how they sit on your ears. IMO a much better and more meaninfgul supraural/circumaural comparison would be a Grado with bowls vs. C-Pads.

 

[muckluck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel I don't see how this is a valid evaluation except in the most general of ways. You're comparing two completely different headphones. There's a lot more defining their acoustic signatures than how they sit on your ears. IMO a much better and more meaninfgul supraural/circumaural comparison would be a Grado with bowls vs. C-Pads.

Has anyone done an in-depth review of Grado's with C-pads? I would love a pair of 225s with C-Pads.

 

[coco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungrych It's not "us vs them", it's just the facts. When you had Grados, did you ever put your hands over the cups? It distorts the sound horribly. They were clearly meant to be used in the enclosure made for them. It's the same as the tube/ss argument: tubes are less convinient, but are still used for many reasons. If you really want to get the facts straight, why not call up John and ask him?

Nope. That would make them closed headphones and this would have a similar effect any open headphone, including the 880s. Many reasons...such as...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel I don't see how this is a valid evaluation except in the most general of ways. You're comparing two completely different headphones. There's a lot more defining their acoustic signatures than how they sit on your ears. IMO a much better and more meaninfgul supraural/circumaural comparison would be a Grado with bowls vs. C-Pads.

I am not comparing anything. I am just asking why the supraural instead of the circum when the latter has obvious benefits. Is it strictly for the sound signature? If so, wouldn't c-pads completely change the Grado sound? The little I have heard from c-pad owners seems that, generally, c-pads produce a similar Grado sound but with bigger a stage and more comfort. They don't suddenly become Senns. Do they?

 

[coco]

DP

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by coco I am not comparing anything. I am just asking why the supraural instead of the circum when the latter has obvious benefits.

But you are comparing. How can you accurately judge the "benefits" of a circumaural design when you're comparing two DIFFERENT headphones? How can you differentiate between which aspects of what you're hearing are attributable to earcup design and which aspects are due to different driver specs, frequency responses, etc.? Do you see my point?

 

[Ferbose]

For many people, a Grado is not a general purpose headphoe.
I am almost sure Grado sound is specifically tuned for rock music.
Grado projects a very in-your-face soundstage that is good for rock but not very good for classical. Some people also like it for jazz but others don't (I don't)
Supraaural cup is a part of the Grado design that gives it the Grado sound.
I have never heard of another company's headphone that can sound like a Grado.
If you want Grado sound, you are stuck with Grado design.
Can you change the supra-aural cup and still retain the Grado sound?
Only Mr. Grado himself can answer this question.
Some people find its supra-aural cup uncomfortable, but others don't mind it (I don't).
Please realize hi-end Grados are specialty headphones. Musically they only work for some genres and ergonomically they only work some people. There is no single hi-end headphone that pleases everyone, and Grados have lots of fans out there. There is no real alternative to Grados in terms of sound.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

The problems you describe are definitely intrinsic in the Grado design philosophy. They are also not problems.

The difference in presentation, all things being equal, is a difference rather than necessarily an improvement or problem; My HD650 sound amazing with Porcupine Tree's track Halo off of Deadwing because of their presentation and the depth of the sound, both positionally and sonically, and yet my Grado SR-225 do, too, because of the intimacy of the sound and the definition of upper mids. They're different experiences.

If I could only have one, I'd take the HD650 because it's more versatile and sounds great with anything in my collection, but I'm extremely happy that I don't have to pick one, because I'd really be missing out.

Edit: Also, reversed bowls without tape are my preferred method of listening. Sounds great, and careful bending has made it rest so lightly but steadfastly on my head and ears that it's a real pleasure to listen to, with no pain involved. I wish I could take back everything I've ever said about Grado headphones being uncomfortable, because all it took was a bit of easy bending adjustment to completely turn them around, comfortwise.