[Pyriel0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, well. That is no "high-end" because it hasn't broken the bank doesn't mean in doesn't perform like High-end. What you say about using different parts I have not said nothing against them. What I am saying is that those differences being audible is not very likely to be (In some specific cases, not talking about extremes here). The last paragraph of yours is just a subjective opinion. It can be easily be made up by anyone.

Subjective huh? You don't know what you are talking about and obviously have not experienced anything first hand. Quit posting about things you have no clue about. That is the just the difference between single ended amping and balanced amping. Anyone with common sense, which obviously excludes you Bullseye, will grasp the concept that there is a difference between no amp at all an using an amp since there are differences between amps as shown below.

Also note that the graphs show what is "subjective and can be made up by anyone" that I said I heard in using this stuff myself. K701= more bass and less treble. D7000(compares to my dx1000) = slightly less bass and slightly more high treble.

 

[Bullseye]

Yeah, it is subjective till you try to control the most variables you can in your test. Your experience as well as some people's experience only gives you a slight idea of how a headphone sounds.

The measurements you have given me from that site do not tell you exactly how the headphones sound, as you didn't post the following graph:

They don't have the same isolation in both cases. The positioning of the headphones is not the "same", the frequency response curve becomes different (slightly different, as seen on the graphs) -enough for some to justify the price of going balanced, and good for headroom as they get more money.

Then you guys just keep on calling names when you disagree. It is just plain stupid.

Then those measurements have not been made for the amplifiers, but for the headphone's drivers, so that is not a good way to justify two amplifiers sounding "different". You might want to search for some RMAA tests between different amplifiers using the headphone outputs, not some headphones and some microphones on a dummy head.

Seems your "common sense" is not that common in you, hugh?

No hard feelings

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyriel0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Subjective huh? You don't know what you are talking about and obviously have not experienced anything first hand. Quit posting about things you have no clue about. That is the just the difference between single ended amping and balanced amping. Anyone with common sense, which obviously excludes you Bullseye, will grasp the concept that there is a difference between no amp at all an using an amp since there are differences between amps as shown below. Also note that the graphs show what is "subjective and can be made up by anyone" that I said I heard in using this stuff myself. K701= more bass and less treble. D7000(compares to my dx1000) = slightly less bass and slightly more high treble.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then you guys just keep on calling names when you disagree. It is just plain stupid.

Don't play innocent.

Your attitude in presenting your position begs it.

You have your mind made up already, are not prepared to listen, and furthermore, in reality, all of this is not really about what you think or think you know. So I've backed out on this one. Happy listening to your cans un-amped!! I'll continue happily with mine amped and will continue to recommend them as such... and that's what matters.

 

[Pyriel0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, it is subjective till you try to control the most variables you can in your test. Your experience as well as some people's experience only gives you a slight idea of how a headphone sounds.

So me actually listening to my own headphones 1) without amp(straight from the soundcard) 2) single ended through a shanling ph100 and 3) balanced through 2 ph100's + a firstwatt f1 only gives me a slight idea of how the headphones sound? LMAO

The measurements weren't supposed to prove how it sounds. It scientifically shows that there is a difference through a standardized test that is done the same way every time, which proves your opinion of "no difference" wrong. I also like how you post a graph of isolation and then make up the claim that its because the headphones are positioned differently. What if someone was in the room and just standing in a different spot? What if the outside mic for isolation was slightly closer/further away? This would not happen on the freq response because the headphones would be over the ears and the same distance each time. The isolation graph holds no meaning here.

You are full of so much bs it isn't even funny. Post whatever you want. I'm sure everyone else here knows not to listen to any of your opinions anymore. Its one thing to not be able to afford higher end stuff, I couldn't for a long time, but its another to delusion yourself and then spread a bunch of misinformation to people actually looking to get better sound.

 

[Bullseye]

As I told you those measurements were made using a dummy head with some headphones on top of it. The dummy head has some microphones located inside fake ears. (Just so you know)

The position of the headphones wasn't the same as the isolation wasn't the same in both cases (they were using the same headphone just different cables). And as I told you that didn't prove anything regarding cables nor headphones balanced or SE.

I could buy a "high end setup" if I wanted to. But I prefer to leave my savings for other stuff that will bring me a real change.

I also came here with the idea of getting the max (over time), but I finished learning that the max doesn't need to brake the bank nor make my wallet bleed.

The concept might be a bit difficult for you or for anyone who doesn't try to analyze everything that takes places when you are listening to some equipment as I do, but believe me that what I want when I recommend something is that the one who I am answering to gets the most out of his system whilst still using his head.

People can listen to my opinions if they want to, I might be writing all of this because I am pretty fed up of dealing with so many myths and useless things being written here, but at least let them decide by themselves.

Aimlink, so if I say something that goes against with all the things that are said on this forums without even giving them a thought, just accepting them as absolute truths, then I am prone to be insulted and my opinion not to be respected? Well that says a lot about this community then. No wonder old members who came from the pro world left this site fast...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyriel0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The measurements weren't supposed to prove how it sounds. It scientifically shows that there is a difference through a standardized test that is done the same way every time, which proves your opinion of "no difference" wrong. You are full of so much bs it isn't even funny. Post whatever you want. I'm sure everyone else here knows not to listen to any of your opinions anymore. Its one thing to not be able to afford hgiher end stuff, I couldn't for a long time, but its another to delusion yourself and then spread a bunch of misinformation to people actually looking to get better sound.

 

[Pyriel0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif so if I say something that goes against with all the things that are said on this forums without even giving them a thought, just accepting them as absolute truths, then I am prone to be insulted and my opinion not to be respected? Well that says a lot about this community then. No wonder old members who came from the pro world left this site fast...

You have no experience with the high end at all and you are arguing with people that own the equipment. What do you expect to happen?
I can sit here right now and listen with no amp/amp/balanced and I have when I first got each part to see the differences.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but usually they base their opinion on experience which you have not. Then you try to use math and science and there are graphs/test/and equipment specs(mosfet specs/ slew rate/ amp signal to noise/ tube vs solid state / output impedances) which are all easily available and you are just too lazy to research or you don't because it goes against your line of thinking. You are trying to ski uphill during an avalanche at this point.

 

[DoYouRight]

The main difference is, why do musicians use better amps, or for speaker rigs, so why not atleast give the POWER that the transducer wants to flourish.


Personally, straight out of my laptop or ipod I perfer high-end cans just not ones with huge ohm. Grados and others with low ohm you can tell the difference and keep your volume, though with a good amp, even running it to your home AV reciever you notice an upgrade in clarity.

 

[Bullseye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyriel0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have no experience with the high end at all and you are arguing with people that own the equipment. What do you expect to happen? I can sit here right now and listen with no amp/amp/balanced and I have when I first got each part to see the differences.

I don't need to have experience with all the equipment I have not heard to know how it will perform (at a certain degree that involves the human threshold of listening) due to all the measurements, data, tests gathered that are more precise than using a sighted test due to all the reasons posted on why a DBT is a reliable source of info.

You want me not to say that all amps sound the same because I have not tried them, then you can't say all amps sound different because you haven't heard them all.

I can also try my headphones w/ or w/o amplification. I don't have any type of hearing loss (recently went to the audiologist), so my ears are not "defective". And I did also think that there could be some difference when using an amplifier, in my own system.

Quote:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but usually they base their opinion on experience which you have not. Then you try to use math and science and there are graphs/test/and equipment specs(mosfet specs/ slew rate/ amp signal to noise/ tube vs solid state / output impedances) which are all easily available and you are just too lazy to research or you don't because it goes against your line of thinking. You are trying to ski uphill during an avalanche at this point.

Measurements, tests, equipment specs go with what I say, most likely I go with what they say. You should revise that info first, if you think it is the other way around.

I am not trying to ski uphill, it is the subjective claims that are (in most cases) trying to go against what it is physically impossible.

 

[Pyriel0]

Go take a basic electronics class along with math so you can understand charts and graphs, then come back to head-fi... or just stay gone. Either one is a good option.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't need to have experience with all the equipment I have not heard to know how it will perform (at a certain degree that involves the human threshold of listening) due to all the measurements, data, tests gathered that are more precise than using a sighted test due to all the reasons posted on why a DBT is a reliable source of info. You want me not to say that all amps sound the same because I have not tried them, then you can't say all amps sound different because you haven't heard them all. I can also try my headphones w/ or w/o amplification. I don't have any type of hearing loss (recently went to the audiologist), so my ears are not "defective". And I did also think that there could be some difference when using an amplifier, in my own system. Measurements, tests, equipment specs go with what I say, most likely I go with what they say. You should revise that info first, if you think it is the other way around. I am not trying to ski uphill, it is the subjective claims that are (in most cases) trying to go against what it is physically impossible.

Why not go to a headphone meet to test your theory.. You seem like a likable guy, but you really come off as a 'know it all,' whether you realize it or not.. Music/science doesn't mix anyways.. Science has data, but audio is more about emotion then anything else.. & audiophile terms like, bright, dry, involving, etc.. Turn that into scientific data & it becomes meaningless measurements.. & you are basically stating that everyone that hears a difference is WRONG, which turns people against you..

 

[fishski13]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why not go to a headphone meet to test your theory.. You seem like a likable guy, but you really come off as a 'know it all,' whether you realize it or not.. Music/science doesn't mix anyways.. Science has data, but audio is more about emotion then anything else.. & audiophile terms like, bright, dry, involving, etc.. Turn that into scientific data & it becomes meaningless measurements.. & you are basically stating that everyone that hears a difference is WRONG, which turns people against you..

dude...if you hung out in the Sound Science forum with the crickets and the other 3 members, you would know: Bulls*** can't prove a negative - has already made up his mind.

frequency response and impedance matching is important, and yes, "good enough", but so is my iPod paired with my iBuds.

 

[estreeter]

I'm not going to buy into the technical side of this argument, but I challenge any Head-Fier to try the following:

1. Plug a pair of K601 straight into a DAP - Cowon, iPod, whatever - or a computer or an unamped CD player and listen for 10 minutes.

2. Plug the same cans into an reasonably decent integrated amp or receiver (something with a good headphone out) and listen to the same material for 10 minutes

3. Come back and tell me that amplification didnt make a night-and-day difference to what you experienced.

The difference may not be as profound with some cans - I like my MS1s straight from my Cowon - but its stark with a pair of hard to drive cans like the 601s. Whether you like the cans or not after this experiment is irrelevant - at least you will have had a glimpse of what they are capable of. Thats what an amp is for - 'volume' is only a part of the equation.

 

[fishski13]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not going to buy into the technical side of this argument, but I challenge any Head-Fier to try the following: 1. Plug a pair of K601 straight into a DAP - Cowon, iPod, whatever - or a computer or an unamped CD player and listen for 10 minutes. 2. Plug the same cans into an reasonably decent integrated amp or receiver (something with a good headphone out) and listen to the same material for 10 minutes 3. Come back and tell me that amplification didnt make a night-and-day difference to what you experienced. The difference may not be as profound with some cans - I like my MS1s straight from my Cowon - but its stark with a pair of hard to drive cans like the 601s. Whether you like the cans or not after this experiment is irrelevant - at least you will have had a glimpse of what they are capable of. Thats what an amp is for - 'volume' is only a part of the equation.

x2.

the AKGs are a bitch to drive, but "more powerful" amplification was mostly wasted on the Ultrasone Proline2500 - an iPod will suffice to my ears, but i don't have any scientific DBT data to back that claim up.

 

[nick1973]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not going to buy into the technical side of this argument, but I challenge any Head-Fier to try the following: 1. Plug a pair of K601 straight into a DAP - Cowon, iPod, whatever - or a computer or an unamped CD player and listen for 10 minutes. 2. Plug the same cans into an reasonably decent integrated amp or receiver (something with a good headphone out) and listen to the same material for 10 minutes 3. Come back and tell me that amplification didnt make a night-and-day difference to what you experienced. The difference may not be as profound with some cans - I like my MS1s straight from my Cowon - but its stark with a pair of hard to drive cans like the 601s. Whether you like the cans or not after this experiment is irrelevant - at least you will have had a glimpse of what they are capable of. Thats what an amp is for - 'volume' is only a part of the equation.

x3

Likewise, I know nothing of the technical side of this argument, but I do know what sounds good to my ears. On one hand I agree with Bullseye - my Grado RS1 sound just awesome straight from my iPod and it makes me wonder- do I need an amp?. On the other hand I use a LOD to connect to my inexpensive Pro-ject amp and to my ears it adds weight and punch to the presentation of the music and therefore adds to my overall enjoyment. For a quick fix I can live with the iPod, but out of preference would plug into my amp.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick1973 /img/forum/go_quote.gif x3 Likewise, I know nothing of the technical side of this argument, but I do know what sounds good to my ears. On one hand I agree with Bullseye - my Grado RS1 sound just awesome straight from my iPod and it makes me wonder- do I need an amp?. On the other hand I use a LOD to connect to my inexpensive Pro-ject amp and to my ears it adds weight and punch to the presentation of the music and therefore adds to my overall enjoyment. For a quick fix I can live with the iPod, but out of preference would plug into my amp.

I have the same experience with the RS2i as you seem to have with the RS1. I admire how good it sounds straight out of the iPod, however, it's performance is enhanced when I plug it into my amp. However, the SR325is is different in that I do not like how it sounds straight out of the iPod. The highs become too harsh and the base too thin. So the difference is one of personal dislike and intolerance, to one of loving it when played from my amp. The difference may be as a result of how forward the highs and mids are with the SR325is. They're really on the threshold of being too much. The amp that I'm using controlls that forward sound and deepens the base. As a result, I'm hearing more full-bodied music without the highs becoming overbearing. I cannot achieve that effect when listening out of the iPod.