[Chris13]

Hello all
Yesterday I tried extensively the HM-601 and HM-801 vs my current iPhone 4.
Headphone : Denon D5000
iPhone 4 : 320k mp3
HIFIMAN : FLAC
The songs were ripped from the same CD source.
Frankly, I can hardly tell any differences.
HM-601 vs iPhone 4 : same SQ, when switching from low gain to high gain the HIFIMAN sound is more powerful but that's all.
HM-801 vs iPhone 4 : sound a little bit more clean and bass a little bit more controlled for HIFIMAN, that's all.
Is it normal? Given all the forums I read, it should have been night and day !
The listenning session was at jaben store, Singapore, during 1 hour: maybe not the optimal condition.
Should I anyway give the HIFIMLAN a new chance: maybe with time, I'll could appreciate its sound more than that.
I'm leaving Singapore at the end of the week, so I'd like to decide wht to do.
Thanks

 

[yuriv]

I had a chance to do a similar comparison. Your result is normal probably because of the electrical characteristics of your headphones. The iPhone 4 has reasonably good noise, distortion, and time-domain test performance even with a low-impedance load. With clean, undistorted output, the audible differences between their headphone amplifiers usually come from variations in frequency response. The D5000 looks like a 25-ohm resistor to a player's headphone amp, so it's a constant impedance across the audible spectrum. As a result, each player delivers a uniform frequency response to the headphones.
 
You should hear a little more of a difference with balanced-armature IEMs, especially the low-impedance ones with multiple drivers.

 

[BotByte]

Quote:

I had a chance to do a similar comparison. Your result is normal probably because of the electrical characteristics of your headphones. The iPhone 4 has reasonably good noise, distortion, and time-domain test performance even with a low-impedance load. With clean, undistorted output, the audible differences between their headphone amplifiers usually come from variations in frequency response. The D5000 looks like a 25-ohm resistor to a player's headphone amp, so it's a constant impedance across the audible spectrum. As a result, each player delivers a uniform frequency response to the headphones.
 
You should hear a little more of a difference with balanced-armature IEMs, especially the low-impedance ones with multiple drivers.

This is true, because I can test my Sansa Clip+ to a ipod touch and the sq is the same with some ipod buds, yet when i try it out with my grados, the sq is like night and day.

 

[Chris13]

Yuriv, doest it mean that with my headphone it make no sense to go with HIFIMAN ?
If yes, I'm disappointing because I expected a really SQ gap.
 
My D5000 is pretty new  and I'm pleased with it, don't imagine for now to go to IEM.

 

[yuriv]

There's probably nothing wrong with your D5000s, which are very nice closed headphones. But because of their electrical properties, they won't cause the various headphone amps to behave differently. You might say that the iPhone 4 and the HM players agree on what kind of signal to present to your headphones.
 
Some BA IEMs, on the other hand, look like a very different electrical load to these players. They cause the HM players to behave differently from the iPhone. You might say that these players disagree on what kind of signal to present to the IEM. But that could be oversimplifying matters.
 
That doesn't mean that the D5000s are inferior to IEMs because they somehow don't do as good a job of revealing differences between amps. Far from it. There are some IEMs out there that are nowhere near as nice as a D5000. But with them, you'll more easily hear the differences between these players.

 

[shigzeo]

I find there to be less difference with proper headphones than with IEM's. My DT880 get just as loud and full with both the 601 and an iPod touch. Without a good EQ, however, some iems sound 'better' with the Hifiman because it has a tamer top end and somehow, a thicker low end. EQ'd, however, there is less difference. The HIFIMAN also has a little less stereo separation than the iPhone/iPod touch, so it tends to sound more intimate. I like it and among audiophile players, it is my favourite, but overall, I tend to use the iPod touch for music.

 

[Chris13]

 
Quote:

 
I like it and among audiophile players, it is my favourite, but overall, I tend to use the iPod touch for music.

Not sure to understand, what do you mean exactly?
 
 


Quote:

There's probably nothing wrong with your D5000s, which are very nice closed headphones. But because of their electrical properties, they won't cause the various headphone amps to behave differently. You might say that the iPhone 4 and the HM players agree on what kind of signal to present to your headphones.

So for you, no need to get HIFIMAN or portable amps?
 

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Quote:

 
I like it and among audiophile players, it is my favourite, but overall, I tend to use the iPod touch for music.

 

What I meant was that there have been a number of audiophile players to hit market and among them, the Hifiman HM801 is probably the best. It has the smallest of gaps between songs in comparison to its competition, has pretty good navigation, doesn't suffer from strange sound artefacts, etc., but overall, the iPod is what I use.
 

 

[yuriv]

Quote:

So for you, no need to get HIFIMAN or portable amps?

 
I actually have more reason than you to get one of those units. The HD600 and the HD650 don't get loud enough in EQu with the iPad at maximum volume. The problem is worse on a Clip+, which barely drives the ATH-M50 loud enough on some quiet tracks.
 
But the D5000 doesn't have that problem. Moreover, you're having difficulty hearing the difference between an MP3 on your iPhone with a lossless file on the HM's. If you're neurotic, download the EQu app for your iPhone 4 and try to annihilate what little difference you hear from the HM players (if any). Then match playback levels (preferably with a voltmeter) and have a friend help you with a blind test. 
 
If I were in your shoes, I may start worrying that the money may buy a bigger improvement by upgrading the cans instead of the amp. Surely that's worth an audition. AH-D7000 perhaps? More probably, I'd worry about how much music I could have bought with that cash. 
 
If the situation really is as you have described, I wouldn't buy. I'd be happy with what I have. But that's me. My priorities are different. YMMV.

 

[shigzeo]

If volume is the problem, an amp will do a lot of good. The HM801 gets pretty loud, as does the 601, but most amps will take it to the next step. Still, going crazy on volume isn't always a good idea.

 

[yuriv]

Yep, that's why the big high-impedance cans stay at home with the amps. After thinking about it some more, I really don't want to take them outside. The lack of isolation in public places makes you want to crank up the volume even more. Now everyone can hear your guilty pleasures. Also, separate portable amps are clumsy. Cellphone-as-DAP is a convenient and elegant solution. Now if only the other smartphones could match the iPhone 4's performance...
 
Isolating cans/IEMs really help keep someone from going crazy with the volume. When recorded pianos, violins, and other instruments sound louder than the real things, I cringe. With non-acoustic recordings, it might be impossible  to compare the sounds to anything outside. That's where we have to be more careful setting the levels. Cranking it up to 11 all the time is bad, but on the other hand, I'm glad that here in the U.S. at least, we don't have laws that limit the output power of DAPs and cell phones, like they have in Europe.

 

[anadin]

I live in the UK and never have problems concerning the EU volume laws with DAP's, I simply stay away from iPods.

 

[Bennyboy71]

Good man.  Just say no to crApple.
 
Actually, the Cowon J3 does have a EU cap if you select EU as your home region when configuring the player, but you can easily select USA and get round it.
 


 
Quote:

I live in the UK and never have problems concerning the EU volume laws with DAP's, I simply stay away from iPods.

 

[gryphon]

Hi Chris,
 
I just got myself a HM601(only 8 hrs of music, not run in yet)  and compared to my ipod classic 5.5 driving my denon D1001(maybe it is not comparable with D5000), there seems to be quite some difference in terms of sound quality. The Ipod song is ripped using apple lossless, the HM601 FLAC.
 
Some of the differences observed:-
 
Bass - the HM601 is more powerful in the bass department and more controlled.  
Transient Speed - the HM601 is faster, the music starts and stops faster.
Soundstage - HM601 is able to project bigger images, the spaces around the vocals and instruments are bigger and have more space. You can hear more resonance and decay.
                     HM601 is more forward.
                     Instruments sounded more real on HM601, if you compare a guitar played on the HM601 and iphone/ipod, the guitar on HM601 has more body, the plucking sounded more real.
Details - the HM601 extracts more inner details than the ipod.
Music Involvement - the HM601 is more involving, you tap your feet more.
 
These are just some of my observations, YMMV
 
Jon
 
 
 
 
 

 

[shigzeo]

My iPod touch 4G drives low Ω balanced armatures MUCH better, with much lower distortion than the Hifiman. That isn't to say that the Hifiman sounds bad. It IS to say that if you are crazy about the signal quality, the iPod touch 4G is better. But if you want warmth, go for the Hifiman, as its distortion is all warm and fuzzy, like valves are, only tamer. 
 
I've got some HM601 hardware tests (unfinished) here.
 
Quote:

I had a chance to do a similar comparison. Your result is normal probably because of the electrical characteristics of your headphones. The iPhone 4 has reasonably good noise, distortion, and time-domain test performance even with a low-impedance load. With clean, undistorted output, the audible differences between their headphone amplifiers usually come from variations in frequency response. The D5000 looks like a 25-ohm resistor to a player's headphone amp, so it's a constant impedance across the audible spectrum. As a result, each player delivers a uniform frequency response to the headphones.
 
You should hear a little more of a difference with balanced-armature IEMs, especially the low-impedance ones with multiple drivers.