[LuckyPantsu]

Thing is or was as R2R2K is now discontinued could be picked up for less than $500 for the smart shopper. $4500 you have to be speaking of the L&P LP6 R2R player. My own R2R2K is flawless and while it's UI is from the 80's it's sound signature is still hard to beat and that is arguably more the point with DAP...

Q-6

I just have said that for 4500 I would like to have both : sound and UI
I had exp only with R2r 2000 red and remember only that song switching took like 10 sec or so and some issues with music formats

 

[Queen6]

I just have said that for 4500 I would like to have both : sound and UI
I had exp only with R2r 2000 red and remember only that song switching took like 10 sec or so and some issues with music formats

For the R2R2K and other similar DAP's you need to strip out the album art, as the device isn't programmed to read the embedded data. This is why there was a slow down and other playback issues. It's common knowledge in their home markets, although not well publicised abroad.

Once the album art and any other needless metadata is removed the R2R2K will play as well as any other modern DAP, better due to it's dual R2R multibit DAC's

No slowdowns or other issues R2R2K plays exactly as intended. The main issue with the player is that once you listen to it's R2R signature, you will judge all other DAP's by it nor be satisfied. Sony's WM1A/Z gets close with it's proprietary DAC solution, equally the R2R2K as agricultural as it is has the more analogue sound signature. The Sony players heavily rely on some very clever SW to accomplish their sound signature, the R2R2K relies purely on it's HW as it minimalistic OS & UI illustrates and we all know that SW is not Hifiman's forte, HW they do clearly understand...

Q-6

 

[efftee]

What headphones you use with this amps?

I don't use headphones, just IEMS, but quite power (especially current) demanding ones -- Annihilator, DC Ti. Some think I am nuts amping up the HM1K like I do just for in-ears, but the external amp frees up the DAC to soar without sharing internal power for amplification, and that produces improvements to the sound -- better resolution/details, transparency, 3D imaging, the 'effortless-ness' that the extra headroom in power driving the entire audio chain... In the end, it is not about whether the DAC/DAP needs it, but the ears wanting it.

With the Aroma power stack, in the background of this post, I get a more compact stack with the footprint of the HM1K, to some extent, basically retained. I do not believe this stack will be inferior, by any standards to any variants of the LP6! With the Origa shown below, the HM1K goes up another notch with more power through the 2-stage Tubes + Op Amp, which affords me many choices to change the flavor of the sound for different genre, material and occasion, with both tube and op amp rolling. It is a completely unnecessary thing to do for 99% of the head-fiers wanting great sound/music in a portable rig -- the R2R2K or Hm1K or any of the top end sigma-delta DAC/DAPs. For the 1% hobbyist who want to milk every last drop out of the audio chain and willing to compromise mobility with a (trans)portable stack, I'll see you in the colloquial rabbit hole where the fun really begins...

Ps. Please don't be mistaken that these all cost a lot of money. Comparatively speaking, external amps are not terribly costly and good tubes could be found at quite reasonable prices. It is the time and effort spent on researching, chasing/hunting, trying/testing, etc, that the hobby sucks out of you that is more of concern...

 

[justsomesonyfan]

Wm1a is ds

checked, i'm pretty sure wm1a is non oversampling therefore not ds?

 

[justsomesonyfan]

I heard that HM1000 Gold/black is also out of production for some reasons. I am sure that is still enough NOS 1704 chips for sale, Audio-gd have a bunch of it and stories about inability to use these chips is pure nonsense. Hifiman told us that they use last batch when introduced r2r2000, but than came out HM1000 that also uses 1704.

In any way r2r2000 black (one of the best DAP i heard) have thin and smeared sound against HM1000 and I don't believe that anybody goes back to r2r2000 after using gold or black HM1000.

what does smeared sound mean? and it is crazy to think that r2r2000 is thin i might have to pick up an hm1000 black in the end after all

 

[efftee]

For the R2R2K and other similar DAP's you need to strip out the album art, as the device isn't programmed to read the embedded data. This is why there was a slow down and other playback issues. It's common knowledge in their home markets, although not well publicised abroad.

Once the album art and any other needless metadata is removed the R2R2K will play as well as any other modern DAP, better due to it's dual R2R multibit DAC's

No slowdowns or other issues R2R2K plays exactly as intended. The main issue with the player is that once you listen to it's R2R signature, you will judge all other DAP's by it nor be satisfied. Sony's WM1A/Z gets close with it's proprietary DAC solution, equally the R2R2K as agricultural as it is has the more analogue sound signature. The Sony players heavily rely on some very clever SW to accomplish their sound signature, the R2R2K relies purely on it's HW as it minimalistic OS & UI illustrates and we all know that SW is not Hifiman's forte, HW they do clearly understand...

Q-6

I rather like that the focus is all on the function of reproducing good sound, not on the form. Not sure if a half-baked UX/UI (on the R2R2K) is better than no UX/UI (on the HM1K), even though the 80s styled video game interface is quite appealing!

Also, not sure what you mean by 'agricultural' and how it related to the the Sony DAPs. I had the DMP-Z1 and it didn’t sound anything like the HM1K; I eventually had enough of the syrupy sound signature and got rid of it. For a shoebox, I’d expected more, a lot more.

what does smeared sound mean? and it is crazy to think that r2r2000 is thin i might have to pick up an hm1000 black in the end after all

From my memory, the HM1K Quad had better resolution, separation/layering, imaging, more transparent and sounded fuller all around.

 

[Queen6]

I rather like that the focus is all on the function of reproducing good sound, not on the form. Not sure if a half-baked UX/UI (on the R2R2K) is better than no UX/UI (on the HM1K), even though the 80s styled video game interface is quite appealing!

Also, not sure what you mean by 'agricultural' and how it related to the the Sony DAPs. I had the DMP-Z1 and it didn’t sound anything like the HM1K; I eventually had enough of the syrupy sound signature and got rid of it. For a shoebox, I’d expected more, a lot more.


From my memory, the HM1K Quad had better resolution, separation/layering, imaging, more transparent and sounded fuller all around.

Agricultural reference was towards the R2R2K due to is basic operation in comparison to more complex DAP's..

Q-6

 

[finvarg]

I don't use headphones, just IEMS

Thank you very much for such expanded and informative answer. I also use IEM now and want to follow this way in future after some experience with top headphones like Abyss AB-1266 TC with proper amplification (to find it was harder than expected). As experienced Naim owner I understand all benefits from using external power supply or amplification. Unfortunately I don't like tubes sound at all. For me in complex genres like some sorts of metal, free jazz, glitch or noise music tubes are too rounding and have unwanted romantic signature. I'll like to have genre-neutral system that can play good all type of music (like Naim can play it) and perhaps Aroma AMP/PSU stack will be my next upgrade. Can you give advices about 4.4 to 4.4 connection between DAP and Amp? Can't identify your cable. I also curious about what is DC Ti. Sorry for such newbie question, I am not very experienced in mobile audio. Apart tube amplification your opinion about HM1000 and Sony DAPs tells me that we have a same hearing .

 

[efftee]

Agricultural reference was towards the R2R2K due to is basic operation in comparison to more complex DAP's..

Q-6

I see. Excuse me, it's just the first time I have seen agricultural used in that context.

Thank you very much for such expanded and informative answer. I also use IEM now and want to follow this way in future after some experience with top headphones like Abyss AB-1266 TC with proper amplification (to find it was harder than expected). As experienced Naim owner I understand all benefits from using external power supply or amplification. Unfortunately I don't like tubes sound at all. For me in complex genres like some sorts of metal, free jazz, glitch or noise music tubes are too rounding and have unwanted romantic signature. I'll like to have genre-neutral system that can play good all type of music (like Naim can play it) and perhaps Aroma AMP/PSU stack will be my next upgrade. Can you give advices about 4.4 to 4.4 connection between DAP and Amp? Can't identify your cable. I also curious about what is DC Ti. Sorry for such newbie question, I am not very experienced in mobile audio. Apart tube amplification your opinion about HM1000 and Sony DAPs tells me that we have a same hearing .

Funny, you know, in ancient times, Naim was one of the most coloured sounding brand in the market with their system and SBL speakers, as warm and musical as they come. And conversely, there are tubes that are neutral, reference-like in timbre and tonality, fast and punchy, with some of the best transients in comparison with solid state; don't write all tubes off as warm and bloomy, though some can be so. Can't say that I can vouch for tubes being preferred or not for certain genres or individuals, other than, as with all things in life, do try it and lets see.

You mean the 4.4/4.4 interconnect? I have a several, I particularly like my old Wagnus ones and the latest is a bespoke 4.4 to an interchangeable 3.5/4.4 termination made for me by NightJar from a special speaker cable, quite one of a kind actually. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks on transducer cables; I have a few including the Orpheus and Centurion, but wouldn't couldn't pay their asking price for the same interconnect, I just don't believe that the difference from a 3-inch wire could justify the price tag. I will be trying the Centurion interconnect soon though, following my own advice, and lets see...

DC Ti is the titanium CIEM from Fitear. As like Wagnus cables, it's from Japan, cult-like almost and not a brand that Europeans will know too much about since they are pretty much sold in a few countries only, in Asia. You can check these brands out in their threads on this forum. Also part of the fun of this hobby to explore new stuff!

 

[Queen6]

I see. Excuse me, it's just the first time I have seen agricultural used in that context.


Funny, you know, in ancient times, Naim was one of the most coloured sounding brand in the market with their system and SBL speakers, as warm and musical as they come. And conversely, there are tubes that are neutral, reference-like in timbre and tonality, fast and punchy, with some of the best transients in comparison with solid state; don't write all tubes off as warm and bloomy, though some can be so. Can't say that I can vouch for tubes being preferred or not for certain genres or individuals, other than, as with all things in life, do try it and lets see.

You mean the 4.4/4.4 interconnect? I have a several, I particularly like my old Wagnus ones and the latest is a bespoke 4.4 to an interchangeable 3.5/4.4 termination made for me by NightJar from a special speaker cable, quite one of a kind actually. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks on transducer cables; I have a few including the Orpheus and Centurion, but wouldn't couldn't pay their asking price for the same interconnect, I just don't believe that the difference from a 3-inch wire could justify the price tag. I will be trying the Centurion interconnect soon though, following my own advice, and lets see...

DC Ti is the titanium CIEM from Fitear. As like Wagnus cables, it's from Japan, cult-like almost and not a brand that Europeans will know too much about since they are pretty much sold in a few countries only, in Asia. You can check these brands out in their threads on this forum. Also part of the fun of this hobby to explore new stuff!

NP it's probably not a commonly used term these day Of the same mind that I want the focus to be on the music reproduction not the operation, secondary operations or the form...

Q-6

 

[finvarg]

in ancient times, Naim was one of the most coloured sounding brand in the market

If you mean Naim had colored sound, what you call neutral? Naim SBL (amazing speakers) was less colored than 95% speakers I ever had (and I had a many of). Olive series had some sort of romantic veil (a very airy and not dominant), but more modern classic line is very neutral. Naim don't tint a music with his own color, each music plays different, that is no possible when system have a coloration. I prefer my Naim DBL to each Focal Speaker at any price tag, even with Naim Statement. Yes you can found a speakers and amps with more resolution, like Magico, but they are not universal and oft destroy music, split it to separated sounds. Most of them is genre depeded, that is not suits me, because I am genre agnostic person.

A main problem with tubes for me — they have a less dense sound than transistors. Can you compare Aroma and Origa in terms of massiveness or consistence? Can you also confirm than both amps are genre independed (like HM1000 or r2r2000 do)?

 

[efftee]

If you mean Naim had colored sound, what you call neutral? Naim SBL (amazing speakers) was less colored than 95% speakers I ever had (and I had a many of). Olive series had some sort of romantic veil (a very airy and not dominant), but more modern classic line is very neutral. Naim don't tint a music with his own color, each music plays different, that is no possible when system have a coloration. I prefer my Naim DBL to each Focal Speaker at any price tag, even with Naim Statement. Yes you can found a speakers and amps with more resolution, like Magico, but they are not universal and oft destroy music, split it to separated sounds. Most of them is genre depeded, that is not suits me, because I am genre agnostic person.

A main problem with tubes for me — they have a less dense sound than transistors. Can you compare Aroma and Origa in terms of massiveness or consistence? Can you also confirm than both amps are genre independed (like HM1000 or r2r2000 do)?

Oh so you know your Naims well. Years ago, when I shopping for a pair of bookshelves, the SBL was one of my considerations, and I auditioned them, a few times as I did really like them, with a full Naim system. I found the sound to be colored — exactly warm and romantic like your previous description (or someone else? I forget); I take that to be the result from the entire Naim audio chain. It’s very nice but I wanted something more 'reference-like' without sacrificing the coherence and musicality. I heard others too, but eventually settled on the Sonus Faber Guarneri with Goldmund monoblocks and preamp; it’s still somewhat colored, which imo every system imparts, just a matter of degree, but not so warm and romantic, yet still very musical for what I listen to.

I think you’d be surprised with the sound you could milk out of good 6DJ8 and 12AU7 tubes. You will not think the sound is less dense/full-bodied than transistors. Of course the actual amp matters too; the Origa has a 2 stage tube + op amp design, is more dynamic than the Aroma, which is a balanced amp, where the Origa is not. HM1K sounds great on both amps, but better resolution, details and overall technicals on the Origa than the Aroma, and with tubes rolling, offer more ‘flavors’ and many hours of fun doing critical listening. I have friends using the Origa with demanding headphones, don’t ask me which, I didn’t pay attention haha, and they’re happy with the performance.

Since this is a HM thread, I don’t want to get into too much on amps, or hifi systems. If you wish to discuss further, shoot me a PM, we can continue from there.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

does the hm1000 still retain the same raw and aggressive sound the r2r2000 has?

 

[finvarg]

does the hm1000 still retain the same raw and aggressive sound the r2r2000 has?

HM1000 preserves a sound signature of r2r2000 but if r2r2k feels like a cramp car, hm1k feels more like a homologated sports car.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

HM1000 preserves a sound signature of r2r2000 but if r2r2k feels like a cramp car, hm1k feels more like a homologated sports car.

yeah i gotta get my hands on an hm then.. or wait for a proper hifiman dap in hopes that their himalaya dac really is as good as the 1704k, which i doubt