[Andrew_WOT]

Wondering if the "difference" cannot be measured in any meaningful and repeatable way, how imprecise and susceptible to the state of body and mind and all environmental conditions human hearing can detect it?
We hear what we want, and the change for some is absolutely there, but it's just mere psychoacoustic effect, same as listening with fancy colorful $$$ aftermarket cable makes you believe into magical headphones transitioning, cable that selectively fixes specific phones shortcomings, like adding treble in one case, lowering in another, fixing gaps in FQ response, etc. defeating all known laws of electrical conductivity.

Dynamic driver does millions of excursions within 10 mins of reproducing sound, just think about it, you don't need 100 hours for membrane material to break in, all you accomplish is adding wear and tear.

The only real burn in there is brain burn in, human hearing just like vision is an extremely adaptive system.
But if burn in process makes phones sound better to you, that's all that matters, even it's "all in you head".

Absolutely wrong thread to discuss this, but I am not the one who started. My last post on this subj.
Happy listening.

 

[bagwell359]

I see, need to sign them up for a gym.

Good idea. Throw in unamplified music, choirs, etc.

Try out super high end systems

 

[bagwell359]

Sub woofers. After break-in (250 hrs) - in most cases I have known - they measure more low bass (whatever that is for the driver). My design (1985, two 12" woofers dual opposed) Tested with same equipment (Krell KSA-100) same wiring, same VAC, same reel-to-reel running at 15 ips, same test tones, same SPL meter. +2 db at 36 Hz. audible.

Mylar - manufacturers and reviewers and listeners all agreed back into at least the 1970's. They change.

Other cases? Some box speakers - the treble. Probably the caps but not clear. It is clear that better caps improve treble but that's not break-in.

 

[PeterCraig]

Try out super high end systems

Right. If you get the chance take it.

I am still chasing the amazing soundstage from a very well setup Linn/Krell/Focal system I had the pleasure of spending a few hours with 10 years ago.

Of course not exactly possible with headphones, but something to aim for.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

And if super doesn't work, try super duper.

 

[bagwell359]

Right. If you get the chance take it.

I am still chasing the amazing soundstage from a very well setup Linn/Krell/Focal system I had the pleasure of spending a few hours with 10 years ago.

Of course not exactly possible with headphones, but something to aim for.

What was the cartridge? Ever hear a Maggie 3.7i or higher? In a room that's not too live, with no TV or rack on the wall between the speakers? That's soundstage.

 

[PeterCraig]

What was the cartridge? Ever hear a Maggie 3.7i or higher? In a room that's not too live, with no TV or rack on the wall between the speakers? That's soundstage.

It was a CD player front end. Maybe even SACD.

 

[bagwell359]

Wondering if the "difference" cannot be measured in any meaningful and repeatable way, how imprecise and susceptible to the state of body and mind and all environmental conditions human hearing can detect it?

I was building and selling sub woofs to friends and acquaintances. All of them into audio in a big way and all wanted to see justification of the money spent. First guy reported changes over about 250 hrs to the group. So Joe a computer hardware Eng brought over the testing stuff and tested my next two. Both had more bass around the resonance point after a few hundred hours. Same equipment, same VAC, very similar athmospheric conditions.

We hear what we want, and the change for some is absolutely there, but it's just mere psychoacoustic effect, same as listening with fancy colorful $$$ aftermarket cable makes you believe into magical headphones transitioning, cable that selectively fixes specific phones shortcomings, like adding treble in one case, lowering in another, fixing gaps in FQ response, etc. defeating all known laws of electrical conductivity.

You are describing a belief/suggestion situation. On "your" side I only find differences in speaker cable with extreme loads (much more rare now then the 80's), oxidized copper, and extreme length vs short runs. I hear no difference in balanced cable, little difference in most DAC chips, well built and designed class AB amps (providing input and output impedance is fairly close).

OTOH, RCA cables near room boundaries with stone or concrete? For sure. Occasionally power cords for amps (oxidation?), Mylar drivers, subs, headphone cables (HFM junk vs any capable O2 free cable Inc DIY).

I'm agnostic to both religions.

Dynamic driver does millions of excursions within 10 mins of reproducing sound, just think about it, you don't need 100 hours for membrane material to break in, all you accomplish is adding wear and tear.

You know this how?

The only real burn in there is brain burn in, human hearing just like vision is an extremely adaptive system.
But if burn in process makes phones sound better to you, that's all that matters, even it's "all in you head".

Absolutely wrong thread to discuss this, but I am not the one who started. My last post on this subj.
Happy listening.

I too think plugging in a new expensive piece of equipment leaves one open to all sorts of subjective pollution. I have talked about mostly unattended break in surrounded on both sides by refreshing ones ears with the current reference on top recordings known well.

All done here.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

You know this how?

That speaker membrane must move in sync with reproduced frequencies to create sound wave?

 

[bagwell359]

That speaker membrane must move in sync with reproduced frequencies to create sound wave

No sir, I mean your assertion about wear and tear? So my 1979 Cizeks and 1984 ProAc's should be dust by now? I rebuilt xover of Pro AC from scratch about 20 yrs ago and Cizek last year and replaced not only the xovers but tweets at same time w orig spec units (tweets that is, not the caps those were upgraded). They seem pretty much like new, or a bit better - sorry no measurements.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Any physically moving/flexing part is a subject to wear and tear, there is no way around it, it's just a matter of how much it takes before the degradation starts.

 

[bagwell359]

And if super doesn't work, try super duper.

It was suggested as one way of comparison. Too bad you are attempting to makes jokes. Isn't there an area for comedy? It's not here - science uber alles only allowed there.

 

[bagwell359]

Any physically moving/flexing part is a subject to wear and tear, there is no way around it, it's just a matter of how much it takes before the degradation starts.

Yes entropy is a condition every physical item goes thru eventually. Strange you believe in that. - yet hold that Mylar film and sub woofers do not change unless it's by entropy. I have seen Magneplanar documentation describe the change in Mylar with recommended break-in 1975 which is about 3 years before the high end really got going. I.E. everyone used zip cord, nobody had an MC cartridge, people put their speakers on the floor or milk crates or cinder bocks or books shelves. I used to sell Maggie's in the early 80's - I and II's and they really sounded unfocused, 2D, and bright until break-in - and the other 3 guys I worked with agreed - of course two of them loved Dynavector Rubies with the VTA out of whack... So maybe they didn't have good ears.

 

[tvr2500m]

I got a pair of HE-6SE V2 Adorama Edition from Adorama. I'm having some challenges with them. They sound less than great. I have a broad range of kit - headphones, amps, DACs, amp/DACs (as well as two-channel speaker gear).

No bass, sucked out midrange, flat dynamics, flat harmonics. I have several amps that provide more than 2 wpc at the HE-6SE impedance. The most effective so far has been the Drop THX 789. But the headphones pretty sound the same through the different amps, just some provide sufficient volume. Different DACs didn't solve the sonic issues.

I haven't given up, yet. I was considering using a good speaker amp, but seeing Hifiman's claim of their new EF400 being able to drive any of the Hifiman headphones, even the most difficult ones, I picked up an EF400.

The EF400 doesn't want to play nice with my preferred Room/Tidal/Qobuz/Ropieee streaming set up, but when I get the EF400 to work, it provides plenty of drive for the HE-6SEs, and every other headphone I have, and it's the best sounding amp/DAC with the HE-6SE, but the fundamental issues are still there, just alleviated a bit.

Thoughts?

Further comment on the EF400... It's a very nice sounding amp/DAC. Lots of power. Sounds great with the Arya V2, Drop DCA Aeon Open X, Focal Clear, and others. My favorite set up is the Bottlehead S3X with either a Halide DAC HD (kind of an oldy, but sounds great) or a Denafrips Ares ll, driving the Aryas.

I hear potential greatness in the HE-6SE driver, but...

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Check if you have stuck to magnet membrane on both sides
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he6-se.886229/page-163#post-16725265