[MattFH]

Hello,
so it seems the Hifiman is often recommended as a more "high fidelity" or quality headphone over those other two. Is this correct?
And if so, would you say, it has to be specific model (S or I) for that?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

so it seems the Hifiman is often recommended as a more "high fidelity" or quality headphone over those other two. Is this correct?
And if so, would you say, it has to be specific model (S or I) for that?

HE400i from a technical standpoint is a lot better given its frequency response. On a wide range of the relevant frequencies, at 10hz(20hz) to 1,000hz, it's as flat as you can get. It is also slightly less affected by higher output impedance on what you'd plug them into, though the K712 is slightly higher so in some cases you might have an amp with an 8ohm output impedance and the K712 isn't affected anyway, but there's a tiny effect on the HE400i. Note that some people will say the HE400i has more bass or less bass than the K712 and it depends on what they're after and what they're listening to. If you're after a more accurate tone that goes down low and reproducing bass freqs with less bias to the upper bass, ie, you get really fast bass with a deep tone when needed, get the HE400i as its response plus the way planars move vs dynamic drivers pumping also makes for lower driver distortion, and you tend to get a lot of that at the bass and treble. If you're after a more pronounced kick to the bass, the K712 might be what you want.

HE400S has one technical advantage over the HE400i and K712: with a 98dB/1mW sensitivity, it will need roughly 170mW to get the most out of it, while the other two at 93dB/1mW will need around 550mW, which means you can get any entry level amp that has very low noise and distortion without the need to get an amp with more output power. Response however is more similar to the K701 than the HE400i, albeit again it's a lot easier to drive than that one. At 24ohm nominal impedance though if you were using an amp with 6ohm to 8ohm output impedance it's not a problem with the AKG, but it might have some audible effects on the HE400S already. That said, most solid state and hybrid amps these days have 3ohm or lower output impedance anyway so that's not really a problem on any of these headphones.

As for which one to get, that depends. Again if you're after fast transition bass that has a deep tone, then get the HE400i; if you want more kick, K712; if you're after something that you can use as a transportable system or not have to blow a lot of money on an amp that has to deliver a lot of power at very low distortion and noise, albeit with a frequency response that's competitive with others in its price though not necessarily technically exceptional as in the case of the HE400i, then get the HE400S.

 

[MattFH]

Wow, thanks for the very detailed write-up. I'll have to consider this more. Do you think any of them is preferable or more "pleasant" in its colour, as more or less warm, cold or neutral? Any harshness, softness?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Do you think any of them is preferable or more "pleasant" in its colour, as more or less warm, cold or neutral? Any harshness, softness?

It's hard to put anything along that spectrum save for extremes because they can lie in any part of it for different reasons. A more "extreme warm" example would be something like the LCD-2C and HD650 - strong response below 800hz, relatively weaker response above 1200hz. Not that it's even all that weak though, but it's a wide swath. And then you have people who will put at the opposite extreme as "bright" (though obviously crappy, tinny, cheap headphones aren't considered anymore) would be the K701, which has peaks in the upper midrange and response starts rolling off at 60hz. The HD600 is somewhere between these - rolls off lower at around 50hz with a taller bass plateau vs the K701 (but shorter and narrower than the HD650, and not as flat as the LCD-2C).

With those headphones specifically the HE400S is generally where the HD600 would be in the other set, but it gets more complicated for the other two. K712 has strong upper bass but rolls off earlier than the HE400i, but because of the loud lower range, some people can hear the bass better. HE400i barely has peaks in the midrange and treble, but because these are slightly taller than the flat 10hz to 1000hz response, some people hear them as louder and brighter.

Since I go with narrowing down choices to headphones that have the least variance from where 1000hz is, the K712 is automatically out. Between the HE400i and HE400S the former is technically superior, but if I can't blow money on a really good amp (or need it to be transportable), I'd take the HE400S.

 

[Me x3]

Hello,
so it seems the Hifiman is often recommended as a more "high fidelity" or quality headphone over those other two. Is this correct?
And if so, would you say, it has to be specific model (S or I) for that?

It's not correct, they are similar in the big scheme of things.
You're preferences will play the bigger role at this point.

I've preferred the K712 over the HD800 multiple times in the past. I've owned them both side by side for ore than a year. Other critical listeners I know also preferred the K712 over HD800 multiple times.
Recordings play an important role, you can not focus only on the headphone's frequency response and forget about the recording's tonal balance.
I'm not saying K712 is better than HD800, but it's good enough to please very critical listeners, sometimes more than the HD800.

You can see graphs or ask here which is best, which is higher 'tier', but the very nature of the sound of a headphone is very complex to describe as it involves many variables. It also depends on your setup, your recordings, your listening levels, your ears, you know... If you want a simple answer to your question, HE400i/s and K712 belong to the same 'tier'.

If you want to get the right headphone or at least try to gain experience in the game, then 'tiers' won't help you. Focus on what you enjoy and what you don't enjoy in what you have. Share that with the people here. Then listen to other headphones and ask for comparative impressions, make sure to share a few of your recordings. For example, if you normally listen to Adele, and you read the impressions from someone who normally listens to live opera, those impressions won't serve you (this is key).

 

[MattFH]

Well, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. The K712 sounds "prettified", artificial and smoothed over. It sounds similar to the K702, but has a weird bulge towards the ear, but without higher detail, which makes the smoothed over sound more noticeable. It can still sound good, especially in mid-centric music and clear melodies. It also has a slight bass boost, and together with the close presence it can create a good atmosphere in gaming and videos, for example.
The HE-400i sounds more neutral, and much tighter overall, giving the impression of higher detail, but sounds also a bit grainy, and tinny sometimes, and can be a bit tiring to listen to. It can sound very comfortable with classical music however, and reproduces the different colours of sounds better than the K712 and some other headphones. I'd probably prefer the K712 for long-time or most casual listening, but find myself not fully convinced by both.

There was a great temporary offer of the Philips Fidelio X2, and for the price I just had to give it a shot (also having tried the aforementioned already), and it's a good multimedia heaphone, and the bass is more well behaved than I expected. The mids are a bit veiled however, and the soundstage sounds half-closed. It sounds in fact like a good TV, with some more detail to accommodate for the closer listening experience, but not so much "Hifi". But the fact that this leaves so many impressed in the headphone world is rather telling, unfortunately. It's hard to come by a headphone that sounds authentically like a speaker, even an ordinary one. (I had tried the X1 in the past, by the way, and I sort of knew what was to expect, but thought maybe I could be a bit more impressed.)

I'm not fully convinced by all of them, and am beginning to look for possible alternatives from Audio Technica (open/half-open) and perhaps Shure, though they tend towards a higher price.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. The K712 sounds "prettified", artificial and smoothed over. It sounds similar to the K702, but has a weird bulge towards the ear, but without higher detail, which makes the smoothed over sound more noticeable. It can still sound good, especially in mid-centric music and clear melodies. It also has a slight bass boost, and together with the close presence it can create a good atmosphere in gaming and videos, for example.
The HE-400i sounds more neutral, and much tighter overall, giving the impression of higher detail, but sounds also a bit grainy, and tinny sometimes, and can be a bit tiring to listen to. It can sound very comfortable with classical music however, and reproduces the different colours of sounds better than the K712 and some other headphones. I'd probably prefer the K712 for long-time or most casual listening, but find myself not fully convinced by both.

That could be due to the K712's flat earpads vs the K702's angled earpads. It approximates speaker toe in angles and reduces the tendency for sound at the flanks to be too far forward (extreme example is Grado on ears with cymbals right at the ears).

HE400i or the later packages I think come with angled earpads vs the flat pads on the HE400 and HE400S.

 

[toucan79]

I owned both the HE400S and X2 at one point. I eventually ended up returning the HE400S because I found them to be tiring to listen to and lacking in low end. Of course, this may have been partly due to my amp pairing at the time - Topping. Though the mid range clarity on the HE400S was better I just enjoyed listening to the X2 more. I listen to many genres, but rock and electronic get the most play time.

With that said, I'm now running Monoprice M1060s (lightly modded - Vegan pads + paper towel mod) and definitely consider these a higher fidelity upgrade to the X2, while still maintaining that nice low end energy. The resolution and detail are far ahead of the X2 to my ears. In fact, the X2's don't get much listening time these days. M1060 is a great value option in my opinion. I'd consider them somewhat warm in signature. Many have compared them to the LCD-2 in terms of signature. I'd say this is fairly accurate based on the auditioning I've done.