[TheAbyss2022]

Yeah. I mean I understand why you're upset that you can't sell a can that probably wasn't worth 3.5k in the first place for more than 1.5k now, I do understand that, but it's great for new buyers. Like myself. Where now things are more sensibly priced. Especially After experiencing 5k products (which I didn't pay more than 2700 for btw, nobody should be paying MSRP on these things) failing after 5 years and being a hassle to get fixed, and having 3k products have successors come out only a year later which also devalues them.. it's just par for the course.... I just hope for longevity out of my current devices.

Once in a while you'll get something like the R10 I guess, and that might actually increase in value. Something that becomes a curiosity item. Stax has always been niche since it requires expensive energizers to use, etc. but man I mean think about the original 1266 owners or LCD3 and 4 owners at this point...

But hey just my opinion.

Well it just shows you the Hifiman are making a huge profit margin probably from the Susvara and are not lowering the price to keep the status symbol of that headphone at the top compared to its competition in that price bracket.

 

[RadekB]

Lol. I almost spit out my coffee that was so smug.

I wonder if you will be as happy as you are now if a new Susvara comes out and the old model is moved to the recently vacated 3k range.

One thing I noticed about head fi is the more expensive the headphone the snootier the thread gets. there's just something about that exclusivity or Price equals better thing that can't be shaken.

Also aren't you in the wrong thread if you don't listen to your hekse anymore ?

I believe not, since the discussion is about them . Listening or not has nothing to do here, I suppose.

Hypothetically, if there's a successor it's quite natural that its predecessor gets cheaper.

Where the situation I'm describing is more about headphones' price drop not caused by any market circumstances (like above), which is quite unusual.
I was counting more on your comments in that matter

 

[boodi]

@Faitoq i have both v280 and v281 : they need cristal clear source / not warm / leaning to analitical , then they would pair nicely with hekse . Overall i'd concurr on what other users said on the topic.

 

[tradyblix]

@boodi, yes you are right. But I am also sure he can acquit himself without help.

Where the situation I'm describing is more about headphones' price drop not caused by any market circumstances (like above), which is quite unusual.
I was counting more on your comments in that matter

Well I am sure they're going to introduce new models at the price points they are leaving. Unless those rumors about hifiman being sold are true and having to get rid of inventory or something. I don't know if that makes any sense, though.

In my opinion, high end headphones should cost less than $3,000.

Companies started getting away with pricing them at five grand and above and I just think it should come down. Electrostatic or experimental driver tech maybe, but boutique, small company stuff like Abyss? uncomfortable dynamics like Final ? The Elite at 4k ? Utopia at 5k ? I dunno when hekse is only 2k. I remember when it was only the SR 009 and Abyss 1266 that were 5K and now it seems like every little company can make a 5k headphone for you. Even ones that started off just modding headphones.

Whatever the reason Hifi man is changing the prices for, if it is not to introduce new models but just to be more competitive in the marketplace, they are doing a good job because they are certainly more competitive now than most companies for the bang for the buck. Well I guess depending on your thoughts about build quality and/or the packaging lately that has been austere. at least they don't have those horrible intravenous vampire cables anymore.

 

[tradyblix]

Well it just shows you the Hifiman are making a huge profit margin probably from the Susvara and are not lowering the price to keep the status symbol of that headphone at the top compared to its competition in that price bracket.

They undoubtedly do have a huge profit margin on all of their headphones especially Susvara, but I doubt that a huge amount of their income comes from that headphone because they probably don't sell as many. Not that many people want to, or can, shell out five or six thousand dollars or whatever they can swing it for, especially when key tech from that headphone is making it down into even Ananda, and drastically improving the sound of those headphones in the process. And that this has been going on for years and all those headphones involved with that are getting discounted heavily on top of it, it's just kind of a bad look for the pricing that hasn't changed on Susvara side.

 

[boodi]

I dont get the recent chit-chat about Hifiman and pricings .....at all

Susvara can be bought for 4k anyday or so , as many other flagship brands /models ;
but eventually they still sound better or in better words, they hold a somewhat better wide long lasting appeal ;
Hifiman didn't introduce changes and updates or updated models for them in years ( like other brands ) because they know they are already on point with many factors.

I have hard time understanding why if someone wants a Rolex or Omega spend 5k without the chattish ( same goes for 200k Ferrari or 500/1000k porche ) , but here we have to read obscure business plots or malevolent reasons.. ???

There's a market for anything and a reason for pricings that follows : when something hi-end or luxury sells and holds a decent value for its market base , whatever the reasons and reasonings , his price is already justified.

Theres dacs and amps costing 10 or 20k btw. ic's and aftermarket cables 3k or 7k..
I dont see so much *****chat about them . They are on sale , in case you want and can afford , as anything.
Susvara along Rolex and Ferrari , sells more then those too.

Hifiman which produce some of the very best headphones ( if not the best of all ) in the world has an offer of 20+ headphones models : for any wallet , price range , scale and reasonings

 

[tradyblix]

There's a market for anything and a reason for pricings that follows : when something hi-end or luxury sells and holds a decent value for its market base ( whatever the reasinings ) his price is already justified.

No, no, I don't agree. Headphones are not Rolexes. They generally don't hold value. Rolexes increase in value over the years; they are investments.

The high end of most normal headphones (5k) is the minimum entry for rolexes. They go up into the hundreds of thousands and even millions for the right model. That is a true luxury good. IF they're the right model, they hold value.

You can buy your 3k cable but good luck getting anyone else to buy it. Because that's you know, Audiophool territory. And Audiophools convince themselves its an investment.

You would be hard pressed for anyone to want any 20 year old headphone. It's a different thing altogether. Susvara has had some luck in that people still want to buy it and it's worth as you say 2/3rds its MSRP. But it's not THAT old. Also all the flagship headphones from 2010 have been surpassed in just 13 years.

That's not what happens in the watch industry ! And that particular headphone (Susvara, current (disputed) champ/darling) is the closest you'll get other than maybe a few other headphones to something that can "hold value". And only until Susvara Meteorite Edition comes out. Etc.

Cars ... that's even more different. Not even gonna address that. Cars lose a lot of value and are not good investments at all either. And they might even have lifespan shorter than headphones, definitely shorter than swiss watches...

 

[boodi]

No, no, I don't agree. Headphones are not Rolexes. They generally don't hold value.

Lol

I bought 3 grados hp1000 and sold 2 of them for a gain ..and still they hold 'important' value , which goes well beyond their mere original or current economic value .

this is just i.e.

not confident i'd go through the rabbit hole with you> to find disagreement on many things and opinions eventually

 

[TheAbyss2022]

No, no, I don't agree. Headphones are not Rolexes. They generally don't hold value. Rolexes increase in value over the years; they are investments.

The high end of most normal headphones (5k) is the minimum entry for rolexes. They go up into the hundreds of thousands and even millions for the right model. That is a true luxury good. IF they're the right model, they hold value.

You can buy your 3k cable but good luck getting anyone else to buy it. Because that's you know, Audiophool territory. And Audiophools convince themselves its an investment.

You would be hard pressed for anyone to want any 20 year old headphone. It's a different thing altogether. Susvara has had some luck in that people still want to buy it and it's worth as you say 2/3rds its MSRP. But it's not THAT old. Also all the flagship headphones from 2010 have been surpassed in just 13 years.

That's not what happens in the watch industry ! And that particular headphone (Susvara, current (disputed) champ/darling) is the closest you'll get other than maybe a few other headphones to something that can "hold value". And only until Susvara Meteorite Edition comes out. Etc.

Cars ... that's even more different. Not even gonna address that. Cars lose a lot of value and are not good investments at all either. And they might even have lifespan shorter than headphones, definitely shorter than swiss watches...

Watches only increase in price because of demand/popularity compared to the number of units the watch maker has made available.

The only headphones that keep or rise in value are the older Stax models and the Sennheiser HE90/HE60 because of their rarity.

 

[Faitoq]

@Faitoq i have both v280 and v281 : they need cristal clear source / not warm / leaning to analitical , then they would pair nicely with hekse . Overall i'd concurr on what other users said on the topic.

What DAC did you paired it with? My eyes are on the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. Will it go perfectly with v280 and HekSE?

 

[tradyblix]

Watches only increase in price because of demand/popularity compared to the number of units the watch maker has made available.

The only headphones that keep or rise in value are the older Stax models and the Sennheiser HE90/HE60 because of their rarity.

The R10 comes to mind. Hifiman's copy cat version is prolly way better buy tho lol

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175411788989?epid=1980751735&hash=item28d75b7cbd:g:K~sAAOSwiuNjFf5u&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA4CxBw6RRZUignDFMSYGOq+MjOYDsTwRFGxs6lfjrJlkx9u0VuwVs+mZ5O6/8Duf4uj5KXFwpOfrwxMi7kUefekxeO5cy24NCyZgTKlGuexIRaHMyu0O36HPTACv8C113OhEpG0fVwkP52xLVzGtdHu3h708dCeGZPwFUn1Hh1Um38Cook09M914H/u4jrvmXOZEWYcq7i13uE8+S1AEUnKpoJtrwY8N4V7Tm7P08nZSyXzxiYRd1NvnHVqxp4W6tq5/ioksE8SN32A20rkPxaznerZ5hsKP168pyMUbQOZ+4|tkp:BFBM0J6gtaVi

 

[boodi]

What DAC did you paired it with? My eyes are on the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. Will it go perfectly with v280 and HekSE?

Unfortinately i did not listen Bifrost 2/64. rme ADI2 and smsl SU-10 pair well with hekse and v280

 

[tradyblix]

What DAC did you paired it with? My eyes are on the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. Will it go perfectly with v280 and HekSE?

I wouldn't. Gonna be too bright. But I don't really like most Schiit stuff so prolly biased.

 

[boodi]

I wouldn't. Gonna be too bright. But I don't really like most Schiit stuff so prolly biased.

@Faitoq no bright sound that i found from v280/281 ( at all) they are both warm and darkish sounding , they both tame highs widespreadly ; if anything they are most un-bright amps i have had.. probably.

Not sure they will sound bright in particular with Bifrost 2/64 as I didnt have the chance to try this particular dac..

 

[DarginMahkum]

It is interesting that, a company like FiiO can bring out a HP that costs $300 and has a carry case, a cable with a changeable connector (first time for full sized HPs, I think), and a proper tuning which many TOTL HPs that cost 10x the price fail to do. And what is more interesting is that, those HPs with horrible tuning are sold like candies among the audiophiles with deep pockets (HifiMan is one of the best in the market when it comes to tuning open back HPs, but their TOTL closed backs are big fails). I see people buy those things, jump up and down for how good they are, start buying DACs, amps, cables and other stuff to compensate the incompetence of the manufacturer, and then at some point they jump onto the next hype train and sell those accumulated nonsense for peanuts. Just like those fancy DACs that claim to make you "feel" -300 dB, but can get away with a distortion caused by a cheap power supply in a $10K+ device, which those fancy audiophile ears fail to hear.

When there is a TOTL hype every week, it is just normal that things lose such amount of value. It is just a bubbled up market in which many are incompetent and riding on the price hike wave. The issue is not why HEKse is suddenly so "cheap", but it was that expensive in the first place. Again, I think HifiMan is one of the best brands in the HP market. I wouldn't lay fingers on many other brands that are so hyped. There are cable companies that sell cables for several thousands and claim to have made some research and came up with such a brilliant idea that can improve the transmission in some magical way - as if they have chemists, physicists, electrical engineers among them that publish papers and gather patents in those fields every time they release a "product". Even their claims are conflicting...

So, it is just normal that products in such a hype driven market lose value and you have such sudden changes in prices.