[Slim1970]

My conclusion to the recent posts on this topic is that everyone is right! It's all good .

I do indeed take note of other opinions in these forums, and it's part of the fun of this hobby to plan, plot, deliberate and dream about expensive toys that I may or may not one day own.
But I have to filter the information to apportion greater weight to those who appear to be more balanced and experienced and hold values that more closely resemble mine. This might seem like a chore, but in practice it becomes automatic after a while.

So yes, we should continue to give and receive subjective opinions on hifi components, and it's particularly useful in order to get a shortlist that we can then audition ourselves. And it's part of this hobby/passion to gain as much insight as possible. HOWEVER.....

No matter how much time I had spent of gathering others opinions on a headphone, on just about every occasion when I came to actually audition it, I was taken by surprise by some or all aspects. With headphones, the practical side (comfort, fit, etc) can be almost as important as the SQ. That's how I ended up with the HEK V2, when my prior expectation was that I would buy the Utopia. Then later, when it came to the V2->SE upgrade, this was only available direct from hifiman, so I had no option to read others opinions and then upgrade to the SE "blind". In this case, it worked out, but that was primarily because I already knew what I liked about the V2, so not such a leap of faith required.

So, keep up with the opinions because they do help build up a picture of the end result, but also do try an audition if at all possible.

Well said, you should always let your ears be the final predictor in what sounds good to you. Reading what others have to say does give you a general idea of the sound signature. So I do find it useful. The difference in how we hear things actually is a benefit once you decipher through some of the rhetoric. So I say keep posting because that is what makes this forum a good place to come and gather info.

 

[joseph69]

I directed the subject and not who made it, because I didn’t believed that was important. As you already had cut out the line I wanted to address and you said you agreed to 100%, I asked you. If @TheAttorney want to reply or expand on what he meant he is of course welcome to do that.

I have over the years seen an increase in recommendations that is to listen to the gear that one is interested in at home in their own audio system. I have recommend this way of evaluating gear as well, so am not pointing fingers. I just think this recommendation may not be as easy to follow as it ones was or that we should expand it to also include buying and if not satisfied send it back for refund. More on that below.

I hadn’t listen to the SE before I upgraded from the v2 and I know of many others here that did the same. Before I upgraded I read a couple of reviews from people that I believe to be trustworthy and that have expressed the difference between other Hifiman headphones like I do. This together with some of the impressions here on Head-fi, from reliable members, conformed IMO what been said in the reviews, which in turn made me believe I got a good sense of how the SE would sound like and how it would differs from the other Hifiman headphones I know well how the sound like, e.g. HE6, v1, v2, HE560, HE500 and Susvara.

It is not the first time I have bought an audio gear without first listen to it at home first. My last one was an audio switch from UpTone. I wished it wouldn’t be so complicated to get top audio gear and evaluate them at home, but even if it’s technically possible to arrange, it’s often complicated and you can more or less only do it if buying them new.

Today if am going to buy any expensive audio gear I will try to listen at an audio show or in a shop to hear if it’s for me or not. If it sound promising I will buy it and ask to be able to return it for full refund in the event that it’s not to my liking in my system. If I can’t listen to an audio gear in a shop, at friend or at an audio show but the gear seems very good from well know reviews and the price is also right, in that case I can take a chance and buy it without having heard it. Like I did then I upgraded to from v2 to SE. I have a rule thou and it’s only to buy new gear if am able to return it for full refund if not satisfied, but shipping on me. I did this with an amp a bought last year.

I can’t say how anyone else should do, but to me and I know many others, buying and testing the gear at home is, if peruses, a safe and easy way to buy new gear. For second hand gear that is sold private is tougher. Anyway before I get to select with gear to buy and evaluate at home I will do a lot of research and that includes finding people/reviewers those ears and way of describing gear I know match my own. It is as important that they can describe the pros as the cons. I prefer short and consist summery.

Let me end this post by asking you, did you listen to the Oblivion Citadel before you bought a custom made one?

Still seems strange to me why you wouldn't direct this to @TheAttorney but, whatever.

My conclusion to the recent posts on this topic is that everyone is right! It's all good .

I do indeed take note of other opinions in these forums, and it's part of the fun of this hobby to plan, plot, deliberate and dream about expensive toys that I may or may not one day own.
But I have to filter the information to apportion greater weight to those who appear to be more balanced and experienced and hold values that more closely resemble mine. This might seem like a chore, but in practice it becomes automatic after a while.

So yes, we should continue to give and receive subjective opinions on hifi components, and it's particularly useful in order to get a shortlist that we can then audition ourselves. And it's part of this hobby/passion to gain as much insight as possible. HOWEVER.....

No matter how much time I had spent of gathering others opinions on a headphone, on just about every occasion when I came to actually audition it, I was taken by surprise by some or all aspects. With headphones, the practical side (comfort, fit, etc) can be almost as important as the SQ. That's how I ended up with the HEK V2, when my prior expectation was that I would buy the Utopia. Then later, when it came to the V2->SE upgrade, this was only available direct from hifiman, so I had no option but to rely on others opinions and then upgrade to the SE "blind". In this case, it worked out, but that was primarily because I already knew what I liked about the V2, so not such a leap of faith required.

So, keep up with the opinions because they do help build up a picture of the end result, but also do try an audition if at all possible.

Let me end this post by asking you, did you listen to the Oblivion Citadel before you bought a custom made one?

I was offered the opportunity to demo the original Citadel if I paid the shipping from Sweden to USA and back, which was $460.00 so I was unsure even though this was a fair enough offer, but I didn't need another amplifier (at all) being I own, and am very happy with both, the WA33 & GS-X mk2. After reading nothing but positive impressions about both, the Oblivion & Citadel I decided to ordered the CC w/impedance selector switch & speaker output/pre-amp switch, but not return it if I didn't care for it, but rather sell it. I figured the speaker output/pre-amp option would appeal to other possible buyers which is why I added this, otherwise I've no need for it, at least right now. With that said, I have absolutely no intentions whatsoever to sell my Citadel. The CC shown on Ultrasonic Studios site is my BTO unit before it was shipped to me.

 

[Gibson59]

Any HEKse owners also own or have experience with the ZMF Verite open or closed? I’ve had my eye on a pair of Verites for a while and I’m wondering how the sound compares to and maybe compliments the HEKse?

 

[Slim1970]

Any HEKse owners also own or have experience with the ZMF Verite open or closed? I’ve had my eye on a pair of Verites for a while and I’m wondering how the sound compares to and maybe compliments the HEKse?

I’ve heard both and the tonality of the both Vérité’s is much warmer, the mids are lusher, and the treble detail is very good but not as airy or extended as the HEKse’s. The bass is big and it hits harder and faster than the HEKse’s. Either one of them would be a nice compliment to the HEKse’s because they sound nothing alike. The Vérité’s are one of the most musically engaging headphones I’ve ever heard.

 

[mixman]

Any HEKse owners also own or have experience with the ZMF Verite open or closed? I’ve had my eye on a pair of Verites for a while and I’m wondering how the sound compares to and maybe compliments the HEKse?

I have all three....VC, VO and of course SE. Compared them last night. I would say they are very much complimentary to each other. The SE is very detailed, analytical and airy. The ZMF’s are warmer, thicker lower mids and more natural sounding. While I do really like my SE, I have been gravitating more to the ZMF sound. While I do believe the SE has a little better resolution, I am finding the warmth and more natural tone of the Verite to be more alluring. One big factor for the ZMF’s is that you can shape the sound by pad swapping.

Let me know if you have any specific questions comparing them.

 

[Malcolm Riverside]

Any HEKse owners also own or have experience with the ZMF Verite open or closed? I’ve had my eye on a pair of Verites for a while and I’m wondering how the sound compares to and maybe compliments the HEKse?

Largely agree with the other replies to this question, but another thing worth considering is what kind of amp you’re using. If you have a good tube amp on hand then I’d say the Verités are a no-brainer companion to the HEKSE, because their sound is really maximized with tubes, and the positive differences between the two headphones becomes more evident.

 

[nishan99]

Any HEKse owners also own or have experience with the ZMF Verite open or closed? I’ve had my eye on a pair of Verites for a while and I’m wondering how the sound compares to and maybe compliments the HEKse?

I agree with Slim1970 and mixman.

I will also add my own finding with the Verite lambskin pads with the monoprice THX desktop:

The HEKse tonality is off while the Verite is colored. I can live with the Verite coloration but I can't stand the HEKse without EQ, it sound really off. Imagine a cymbal splash sounding louder than the crash? the decay is louder than the hit itself!.

The Verite's bass is more dynamic and heavier sounding while the HEKse is more detailed with much better subbass.

The HEKse mids are leaner compared to the Verite. Otherwise both are relatively neutral.

The Verite are slightly dark sounding (above 1Khz) with an 8Khz peak and double minor peaks in the very high treble. The HEKse are bright overall with peaks around ~4Khz and 6Khz and then an insane ~14Khz mountain of an elevation.

The soundstage of the HEKse is wider and taller but not as deep as the Verite. Also the imaging is less defined in comparison to the Verite but the images themselves are much bigger (big sounding).

The HEKse are clearly more resolving in the treble and bass.

The timbre, the HEKse are softer and more rounder sounding with less weight and tactility to the sound. Also the bass decays faster in the HEKse. The HEKse are more transparent and open sounding thanks to their very open design.

They are also more comfortable.

Both are great headphones. I prefer the HEKse with soundtracks, metal, symphonies, violins and EDM. I prefer the Verite for everything else. I highly recommend owning both if you're okay with EQing the HEKse.

 

[Gibson59]

I have all three....VC, VO and of course SE. Compared them last night. I would say they are very much complimentary to each other. The SE is very detailed, analytical and airy. The ZMF’s are warmer, thicker lower mids and more natural sounding. While I do really like my SE, I have been gravitating more to the ZMF sound. While I do believe the SE has a little better resolution, I am finding the warmth and more natural tone of the Verite to be more alluring. One big factor for the ZMF’s is that you can shape the sound by pad swapping.

Let me know if you have any specific questions comparing them.

Great insight, thank you! And congrats on owning some amazing headphones.

Ok, feet to the fire... You can only keep one to go along with your HEKse, would you keep the VO or VC and why? (Btw I’m not interested in the sound isolation ability of VC, just making a choice based on from a sound characteristics point of view)

Largely agree with the other replies to this question, but another thing worth considering is what kind of amp you’re using. If you have a good tube amp on hand then I’d say the Verités are a no-brainer companion to the HEKSE, because their sound is really maximized with tubes, and the positive differences between the two headphones becomes more evident.

I use a Woo WA22 with vintage tubes. Sounds awesome with HEKse and I would imagine would be great with Verite as well. The amp’s great because it has that euphoric tube sound you’d expect and it’s very resolving, but not overly warm which I actually like. Because of the latter the WA22 might strike a nice balance with Verite which by all accounts is already pretty warm and lush.

 

[koven]

I have all three....VC, VO and of course SE. Compared them last night. I would say they are very much complimentary to each other. The SE is very detailed, analytical and airy. The ZMF’s are warmer, thicker lower mids and more natural sounding. While I do really like my SE, I have been gravitating more to the ZMF sound. While I do believe the SE has a little better resolution, I am finding the warmth and more natural tone of the Verite to be more alluring. One big factor for the ZMF’s is that you can shape the sound by pad swapping.

Let me know if you have any specific questions comparing them.

Solid summary and spot on w/ my perspective as well!

 

[Slim1970]

I have all three....VC, VO and of course SE. Compared them last night. I would say they are very much complimentary to each other. The SE is very detailed, analytical and airy. The ZMF’s are warmer, thicker lower mids and more natural sounding. While I do really like my SE, I have been gravitating more to the ZMF sound. While I do believe the SE has a little better resolution, I am finding the warmth and more natural tone of the Verite to be more alluring. One big factor for the ZMF’s is that you can shape the sound by pad swapping.

Let me know if you have any specific questions comparing them.

If you enjoy listening to music it’s hard not to like the VO‘s or the VC’s. Their sound is so seductive especially on a tube amp. Zach let me listen to the VO’s and the prototype VC’s and I was floored by the combination. The HE1000se’s as good as they are, can’t match the musical ability of the Veritè’s. The two are really at the opposite ends of the spectrum when it come to how they deliver music. But both are outstanding at what they do!

 

[mixman]

Great insight, thank you! And congrats on owning some amazing headphones.

Ok, feet to the fire... You can only keep one to go along with your HEKse, would you keep the VO or VC and why? (Btw I’m not interested in the sound isolation ability of VC, just making a choice based on from a sound characteristics point of view)

I use a Woo WA22 with vintage tubes. Sounds awesome with HEKse and I would imagine would be great with Verite as well. The amp’s great because it has that euphoric tube sound you’d expect and it’s very resolving, but not overly warm which I actually like. Because of the latter the WA22 might strike a nice balance with Verite which by all accounts is already pretty warm and lush.

Too early to tell. I am still breaking in the VC. Perhaps I am not getting the proper seal but right now I would say the VO has more bass. They just have different presentations. The VC is generally more in your face with more pronounced upper mids a slightly smaller stage depending on pads and more pinpoint imaging. The VO has more laid back upper mids, larger more 3D stage, not as precise imaging. I have not really settled yet on pads for the VC. I would say if you keep the SE the VC may be a more logical choice.

I see you are selling your WA22, What are you replacing it with? My buddy who sold his not too long ago told me it's a good amp, but getting the right tubes for it is tricky and expensive. He said he is sticking with solid state from now on.

 

[mixman]

If you enjoy listening to music it’s hard not to like the VO‘s or the VC’s. Their sound is so seductive especially on a tube amp. Zach let me listen to the VO’s and the prototype VC’s and I was floored by the combination. The HE1000se’s as good as they are, can’t match the musical ability of the Veritè’s. The two are really at the opposite ends of the spectrum when it come to how they deliver music. But both are outstanding at what they do!

Yes, more succinctly, I see the SE as the analytical can. Since it scales really well I use it to evaluate new gear and or a song I want delve into. The Verites as the easy listening cans you just sit back and listen away with. They can also be ruthless with bad songs or bad gear, but even when being ruthless are generally very musical.

The issue I am having is that I generally do less of the analyzing thing when listening and the SE doesn't get as much headtime as before. This is why I am tempted to move up to the Susvara which I do see as warmer and more musical than the SE. Just not sure if I want to invest that much in staying with the Hifiman sound though.

 

[Gibson59]

I see you are selling your WA22, What are you replacing it with? My buddy who sold his not too long ago told me it's a good amp, but getting the right tubes for it is tricky and expensive. He said he is sticking with solid state from now on.

Actually I pulled the ad and decided to hang onto the WA22, it’s just so pleasing to my ears. Sold some other gear instead to fund a new purchase. I have a set of tubes I’m really happy with and I guess I’m one of the lucky ones that only spent a few hundred to get there lol.

 

[mixman]

Actually I pulled the ad and decided to hang onto the WA22, it’s just so pleasing to my ears. Sold some other gear instead to fund a new purchase. I have a set of tubes I’m really happy with and I guess I’m one of the lucky ones that only spent a few hundred to get there lol.

The WA22 is high on my list of amps, but everytime I look into a new amp, I buy a headphone instead! LOL!!!

 

[Gibson59]

The WA22 is high on my list of amps, but everytime I look into a new amp, I buy a headphone instead! LOL!!!

1st world problems