[X1787X]

I think part of cable rolling is seeing a beautiful weaved copper/silver cable and that it is something tangible. At the end of the day we spend all this money just for better vibration of air particles, I think achieving the same effect by digitally altering the signals just feels a bit bland. For some people, this hobby is not just about sound quality through gear, but rather sound quality and the gear itself. You build up a relationship with the gear and the sound signature defines the headphone itself. To me at least, cable rolling is like makeup and clothes, while EQ is plastic surgery. I prefer the analog parts to do the interpretation of the digital file, and if you use EQ it just isn't the same song or same signal fed into the dac anymore.

Just my two cents

 

[chesebert]

Oh boy, I stirred up a can of worms. I have been incorporating EQ in my headphone systems ever since I learned how absolutely linear headphone diaphragm is and planar is even more linear than dynamic. The major drawback of using old school EQ with speaker system is potential phase shift as you incorporate EQ into the chain. You all should read more about Tyll and Bob Katz and their discussion on headphone EQ. It was a revelation for me. Using EQ to fix targeted issues is both more accurate and less expensive than trial and error cable rolling.
Also I am sure everyone knows part of the jobs of a sound engineer is to EQ and compress (some not all) the crap out of files and to essentially mold the music to fit the taste of the creator and consumers.

 

[DarginMahkum]

So, it has arrived. I will try to make some comparisons soon vs T+A Solitaire P (and hopefully P-SE) on T+A HA200 and Shanling M30, but my initial impression is that due to the difference in tonality and presentation I need to do tone adjustments before really comparing them. HA200 is a very neutral DAC amp and the treble is not shy, which is what Solitaire P needs, but not so the HEKse. Fortunately HA200 has good basic (bass and treble) EQ. Let the fun begin...

 

[SonicFade]

Yup, this is what I call pseudo perfectionism here on these threads - "I won't use EQ", as if altering the sound by any other means is not EQ'ing.

If you are using Windows PC as your source, just use a music player that has the ability to add a VST to the chain (like JRiver Media Player), buy one of the best PEQ's in the market (like for $/€150) and you are good to go. JRiver player on Windows can even be used as an audio sink which makes it a system level EQ. Of course, there are cheaper or free ways to achieve that, too.

https://www.fabfilter.com/products/pro-q-3-equalizer-plug-in

If you are using Linux system as the source, use the PulseEffects which is a system level DSP framework.

do you have any recommendations a parametric eq on a dap scenario? That’d be awesome but the only ones I’ve seen are graphic eq’s

 

[DarginMahkum]

I compared the HEKse and P. There is something about P that I haven't heard any other HP creating any similar effect, and that is the bass reproduction. Both P and P-SE position the bass closer than the rest of the image and both are very detailed. D8000 comes close to it but cannot catch up with the impact and the size. HEKse bass is also great but positioned further away. Can catch you off-guard, though. Still, once you hear the bass of P (P-SE is also similar), you cannot unhear it.

The mids and upper treble of P are considerably warmer and thicker. P is much more neutral. Just from memory, I liked the treble balance of D8000 Pro more than P and I think I prefer it also over the HEKse. While comparing P and HEKse, I had to raise the treble of P 2 to 4 dB, so that they sound somewhat similar.

As bass reproduction of P and P-SE are their headlines, separation is what I liked very much about HEKse. HD800S on steroids is really the right term for HEKse.

Back to listening...

do you have any recommendations a parametric eq on a dap scenario? That’d be awesome but the only ones I’ve seen are graphic eq’s

If you are using an Android DAP, I can recommend UAPP and its PEQ add-on (which you need to buy separately).

 

[xtr4]

do you have any recommendations a parametric eq on a dap scenario? That’d be awesome but the only ones I’ve seen are graphic eq’s

Lotoo PAW Gold has PEQ but that's really old school style non-touch screen design

 

[TheAttorney]

While comparing P and HEKse, I had to raise the treble of P 2 to 4 dB, so that they sound somewhat similar.

A number of us have found that HEK does improve with burn-in (allow around 100 hours).
I don't think the frequency curve changes - rather a case of more refinement and slightly less ragged, which at least partially helps tame that slightly forward nature.

I don't know if you have the HEKse on trial or full purchase, but if you decide to keep them then a cable upgrade is mandatory IMO. The stock cable is good enough to give an indication of what a HEK can do, but it's definitely holding back the full potential.

 

[DarginMahkum]

A number of us have found that HEK does improve with burn-in (allow around 100 hours).
I don't think the frequency curve changes - rather a case of more refinement and slightly less ragged, which at least partially helps tame that slightly forward nature.

I don't know if you have the HEKse on trial or full purchase, but if you decide to keep them then a cable upgrade is mandatory IMO. The stock cable is good enough to give an indication of what a HEK can do, but it's definitely holding back the full potential.

This is a second hand unit, so it was already run for a while (but don't know for how long). I haven't decided yet if has earned its place next to Solitaire's. At least after a bit of EQ tweaking of both for a similar signature that I like, I prefer the technicalities of P over HEKse (P-SE not tested yet). Comfort is an important point, too. Initial impression I prefer cups of P and headband of HEKse. I wish the HPs could procreate.

 

[chesebert]

A number of us have found that HEK does improve with burn-in (allow around 100 hours).
I don't think the frequency curve changes - rather a case of more refinement and slightly less ragged, which at least partially helps tame that slightly forward nature.

I don't know if you have the HEKse on trial or full purchase, but if you decide to keep them then a cable upgrade is mandatory IMO. The stock cable is good enough to give an indication of what a HEK can do, but it's definitely holding back the full potential.

What did you find lacking in HEKse that a cable fixed the issue?

 

[TheAttorney]

What did you find lacking in HEKse that a cable fixed the issue?

Nothing was lacking in particular because the stock cable is well balanced at being "adequate" across the board.
I upgraded the cable because of past experience of cable upgrades (any cable between any component including headphones).

And I was delighted with the result that gave across the board improvements.
There's rarely any particular "issue" with stock anything. Manufacturers tend to release products that do indeed basically work as intended.
But one can always improve upon stock anything with carefully chosen upgrades - it's what audiophiles do .

The stock HEK cable is a pretty good start (as I've stated in the past) and it's no worse than most other headphone manufacturers' stock cables - they can all be improved upon. Of course, if you're not a cable believer then all of the above is nonsense and I'm perfectly ok if you think that.

 

[chesebert]

Cable is not a religion and your hearing would be shot if you have to believe in sound differences. The question is what improvements did your cable bring and the specific sound differences compared to stock cable.

 

[471724]

do you have any recommendations a parametric eq on a dap scenario? That’d be awesome but the only ones I’ve seen are graphic eq’s

The Astell & Kern Kann Cube DAP has a parametric EQ - it allows the user to adjust frequency, +-amplitude and Q for each band, if memory serves 12 bands in all. Access is inconvenient and it doesn't display the resultant response curve, but sonically it works well.

 

[DarginMahkum]

The Astell & Kern Kann Cube DAP has a parametric EQ - it allows the user to adjust frequency, +-amplitude and Q for each band, if memory serves 12 bands in all. Access is inconvenient and it doesn't display the resultant response curve, but sonically it works well.

Last time I tried on SP2000, the Q parameter handling was not working properly. There are several reports about it and I also asked Jason for a fix but there was no response. Maybe Cube is different.

 

[TheAttorney]

Cable is not a religion and your hearing would be shot if you have to believe in sound differences. The question is what improvements did your cable bring and the specific sound differences compared to stock cable.

As I said before, it's "across the board". This means every possible parameter that I can think of as being important. Including (but not limited to):

Better detail, dynamics, more depth to the sound stage, more life-like vocals and instruments, more focused, more "you are there", sound images pop out more obviously from the mix, a reduction of glare and haze from the higher frequencies.

The latter in particular makes the slightly forward nature of the HEK's more acceptable. Not because it changes the FR (which only EQ can do) but because it reduces the glare that exacerbates any HF peaks. It doesn't turn the HEK into a different headphone, it just makes it better at what it already does.

As I've posted before, if I could find a PEQ that had no downsides (loss of transparency) then I'd use it (and for a while I did use Roon's PEQ to tame my HEK V2, but I've found the SE doesn't need EQ as much as V2 did). And a while back I trialed a professional PEQ plug-in to JRiver and found it severely lost transparency. Maybe it was a synergy thing and I was doing something wrong, but I can only hear what I can hear.

The bottom line is that EQ and component upgrades do different things as others have mentioned. This is not a belief thing - in the ideal world, I'd use both, but I only end up with whatever sounds best at the time.

 

[DarginMahkum]

As I've posted before, if I could find a PEQ that had no downsides (loss of transparency) then I'd use it (and for a while I did use Roon's PEQ to tame my HEK V2, but I've found the SE doesn't need EQ as much as V2 did). And a while back I trialed a professional PEQ plug-in to JRiver and found it severely lost transparency. Maybe it was a synergy thing and I was doing something wrong, but I can only hear what I can hear.

I don't know which one you tried , but some PEQs (non-professional EQs mainly) reduce the gain a couple of dB to avoid over-clipping. Could that be the effect you heard? At least I can say that the FabFilter Pro Q3 is very good.