HIFIMAN HE-400 headphones with core3d sound card

[Linked]

Hello,
 
i hope i can get some advice from ppl who tried this headphone before, i just got my new HE-400 headphones, i order these specifically and not the newer 400i based on lots of forums feedback that the 400 got the better bass of the 2 and in general the HE-400 is known to be one of the best headphones when it comes to bass.
 
i'm using these headphones on my home desktop with a creative core3d sound card that has a dedicated headphone amp that according to creative can drive up to 600 ohm headphones. so i assume that should be more than enough to drive the HE-400.
 
the sound is amazing compared to any regular headphone i ever had (this is my first time to try a high end headphone) but i can't help but to notice that the bass is not as powerful as i read on all the reviews.
 
my question is, could it be that the core3d amp is not enough to drive these? do i need to buy a separate amp in which case which amp would be best to show the power of these headphones.
 
on the other hand could it be that this is just how it's supposed to sound and the bass was overrated in all the reviews i read?
 
appreciate any help
 
thanks,

 

[cel4145]

HE-400s are a bit insensitive. That means that they need more power to reach the same volume as other headphones. If you are running them near full volume with your sound card such that it's internal amp is reaching it's limits, could be the dynamics of the bass are being limited by the sound card, particularly if you listen to very bass heavy music.

 

[billybob_jcv]

Three things:

1) Soundcard manufacturers are notorious for being overly optimistic when they say they can drive a 600 Ohm headphone. They could just mean "yes, sound will come out when you plug a 600 ohm headphone into this card" - they don't say anything about *good* sound, or that it will be at a volume level you desire.

2) Impedance is only one aspect - there is also the sensitivity of the headphones, which is how loud they will get for a given power level of the input signal. A headphone can be low impedance, but also low sensitivity, and that can be a hard load for the amp. The HE400 is only 92.5 dB/mW. That is not very sensitive, and it really needs an amp.

3) "HE-400 is known to be one of the best headphones when it comes to bass" - compared to what? And more importantly, compared to what headphones *you* have actually listened to? Here's the HE400 compared to the ATH-M50X. Which do you think has more powerful bass?




IMHO, if you were looking for headphones with emphasized bass, you bought the wrong headphones.

 

[Linked]

Thank you guys for the valuable info, i have no problem at all getting this loud enough, in fact the volume is at 50% only and above that my ears will start to hurt from the loudness, so from what you guys mentioned i think i can assume the soundcard is able to drive these just fine, whether an amp would add anything to the bass is starting to seem unlikely now.
I come from mainly gaming headsets like rokkat and razer tiamat, and bose ae2 for music, i bought the hifiman cause its soundstage is really good for virtual surround (i really love it there) but perhaps the bass is just less than i expected in this set (its actually even weaker than the bose ae2)

Unless someone can state from personal experience with this, i think putting 200 or 300 $ more now on an amp would be a waste of money

 

[cel4145]

Thank you guys for the valuable info, i have no problem at all getting this loud enough, in fact the volume is at 50% only and above that my ears will start to hurt from the loudness, so from what you guys mentioned i think i can assume the soundcard is able to drive these just fine

Maybe not. 50% doesn't say anything about how much headroom is left on the amp. If it's starting to hurt your ears at volumes above that, could be that's the distortion.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Hmm so you want an open headphone with substantially more bass than what the HE-400 has to offer.  The best recommendation I have for you is this thread.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/716711/the-best-bass-headphones-are-the-extreme-bass-club
 
But for your information, the HE-400 is known to have more bass quantity than the vast majority of open headphones.  When reading the reviews you mentioned, you need to look at what the HE-400 is compared to (typically it's compared to the likes of the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro and DT 880 Pro - other open headphones).  Then look at frequency response graphs like the one provided by billybob_jcv.  When you get to higher end mid-fi headphones in the $300+ range, you'll notice that many of the headphones seek to provide a more linear frequency response.

 

[billybob_jcv]

Yup - "best bass" doesn't always mean "lots of bass" - it depends on your definition of "best".

 

[Linked]

thank you all for your kind help, i did some more testing, and it seems i'm able to get the deep low end bass just fine on lower volume, while it starts to flatten out more and more when i increase the volume, i'm guessing the internal amp in the soundcard can indeed drive the sound volume but not so much with the bass (i'm not so informed on how that works but thats how it sounds to me)
 
i may go for a decent headphone amp after all, but since i also want to preserve the usage of the cool sbx virtual surround that comes with the soundcard, when i get an external amp wouldn't that stop the virtual surround? or there's a way to get the external amp working and keep the virtual surround from the core3d ship.
 
also if you can suggest good external amps that can boost bass would be great, i dont need something portal, i will only use it on my desktop, so my top priority is being able to drive the HE-400 with proper bass over high volumes as well.

 

[cel4145]

It should work well to plug a headphone amp into your soundcard. Which one do you have? Schiit Audio has some Magni headphone amps on closeout (they just came out with a new version). It would have a good bit more power than your soundcard.

 

[Rhamnetin]

It should work well to plug a headphone amp into your soundcard. Which one do you have? Schiit Audio has some Magni headphone amps on closeout (they just came out with a new version). It would have a good bit more power than your soundcard.

 
$79 for a Magni is a damn good deal.  You might want to get one!

 

[Linked]

thought to put this update for anyone interested, i played around a little more with the setup i have, and i finally managed to open up the real bass these headphones can drive.
 
on the core3d control panel i did the below modifications:
1- disable bass crossover
2- enable EQ and push gain level to 11 instead of 0
3- raised 31Hz  to 16db, and 62Hz to 8db
 
with the above configuration i get a really deep and powerful bass (but still not overwhelming) the catch is... volume level can't exceed 12%, anything above that the bass distortion starts to show up more and more. which bring me to my final conclusion, the sound card might be able to drive these headphones from volume perspective, but certainly wont keep tones quality up.
 
i'm looking into Asgard 2 amp now, think it should be more than enough for these headphones.

 

[cel4145]

According to Schiit's specs, the Magni 2 seems to have more power for low impedance headphones than the Asgard 2, and the Magni 2 Uber even more. That difference in power may not be significant, but the price difference is.

 

[Linked]

am not sure how true is that though, the asgard is superior from electrical circuits prepective and according to reviews sounds much better than magni

 

[billybob_jcv]

IMHO, if you are moving the EQ that much, then you have the wrong headphones, and the amp is not going to provide you what you want. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Linked]

Dont think so, the bass in fact is flattened bymy sound card to prevent distortion, what am doing is overriding this hence the huge distortion after 12%. I love the headphone otherwise, great soundstage. I believe the amp will provide enough power to drive the bass properly without having to do this EQ setting. and if the headphones were not capable of getting the bass i needed, i wouldnt hear it on any combination of EQ gain/Hz change dont u think?