[mackay maus]

Hi all;

After 50+ years fo collecting records (and later CDs), I'm running out of space, and considering buying future music in high-resolution format. I'm confused by formats and sample rates, and wonder if any of you can point me to a web site for beginners-high rez for dummies, I suppose? I'm mac based and run Amarra (when I can figure it out), and just picked up a Fiio Q5. Considering a DAP, but there doesn't seem to be an advantage over staying with my iphone and the Q5.

I'm assuming CD quality is as good as digital gets, and given how cheap CDs are now (as compared to the prices I see on the sites like 7digital and HD Tracks, it would make sense to buy, rip and store the CD offsite. That make sense?

Thanks. I have terrible internet (the only downside of living deep in Rural Canada) so my google searching is very spotty.

Matt

 

[kukkurovaca]

I'm assuming CD quality is as good as digital gets, and given how cheap CDs are now (as compared to the prices I see on the sites like 7digital and HD Tracks, it would make sense to buy, rip and store the CD offsite. That make sense?

Oh, you can definitely get higher than CD quality recordings. Much higher. The question is, will you hear a meaningful, non-placebo difference between those high res recordings and a CD rip. I'm somewhat skeptical of the benefits of higher resolution formats in general, and in many cases even if higher resolution is delivering real benefits, it won't actually matter for many if not most genres/recordings/masterings/etc.

Ripping CDs is a perfectly reasonable solution (especially since your internet connection sucks). Just be ready for, if you plan to digitize your whole library this way, or if you go to your nearest record store and load up on new CDs, that ripping a lot of them back to back can be kind of a chore.

 

[mackay maus]

Thanks kukkurovaca. That scale of diminishing returns would especially apply to a pair of 65-year-old ears that spent far too much time at Grateful Dead concerts in the 70s. I do plan to buy some tracks and compare then to my rips. I just picked up an AK JR ($200CAD) to dabble with a DAP without a huge investment. And, it is red, and we all know red gear sounds better...

Thanks for taking the time to share this info. Much appreciated and hope Santa brings you a nice boxset.

Matt

 

[megabigeye]

Here is a nice explanation as to why Hi-Res music is not necessary from a technical standpoint. What is not explained in that first post is that different formats (vinyl, CD, Hi-Res) often have different masters, some of which sound better than others. Sometimes Hi-Res will sound better than CD, sometimes CD will sound better than Hi-Res, sometimes they will sound the same. If you're the sort that hunts down specific releases and masters, then having the ability to find the ones that are only available in Hi-Res probably makes sense.

 

[tomb]

Here is a nice explanation as to why Hi-Res music is not necessary from a technical standpoint. What is not explained in that first post is that different formats (vinyl, CD, Hi-Res) often have different masters, some of which sound better than others. Sometimes Hi-Res will sound better than CD, sometimes CD will sound better than Hi-Res, sometimes they will sound the same. If you're the sort that hunts down specific releases and masters, then having the ability to find the ones that are only available in Hi-Res probably makes sense.

^ This, mostly.

CD is limited to 16-bit, 44.1kHz sampling rate, by industry convention, often referred to as the "Red Book CD format," which was an actual "red" book published by Phillips and Sony to define the Compact Disc format. 44.1kHz is the mathematical minimum (with some overhead) for properly sampling up to 20kHz, often recognized as the high-end limit in human frequency response hearing.

The problem comes in physically limiting those constraints in a real recording environment. RC circuit filters and the like are used to properly bound the frequency response in the recording environment, so as to optimize that sampling rate. Unfortunately, the filters are analog and have deleterious effects on the audible frequency band of 20Hz to 20kHz. This is how hi-res became popular, by moving those analog filters further and further out away from the 20kHz audible limit. The result is often a cleaner music signal with noticeably more "air" and detail.

Like everything else in audio, unscrupulous vendors and mfrs can exploit this new-found popularity in hi-res by simply up-sampling existing CD Red Book recordings. Buyer beware, as always! That is why many people state - correctly - look for a recording whose Master was actually recorded at that higher rate.

P.S. @megabigeye - if you had a background in photography, especially of the pre-digital, chemical processing kind, you'd know right away what "grainy" meant.

 

[Monsterzero]

Here is a nice explanation as to why Hi-Res music is not necessary from a technical standpoint. What is not explained in that first post is that different formats (vinyl, CD, Hi-Res) often have different masters, some of which sound better than others. Sometimes Hi-Res will sound better than CD, sometimes CD will sound better than Hi-Res, sometimes they will sound the same. If you're the sort that hunts down specific releases and masters, then having the ability to find the ones that are only available in Hi-Res probably makes sense.

Head over to the Steve Hoffman forums and read. Ive learned a lot about which pressings and masterings are preferred of any given release.
Its kind of crazy the difference in SQ there can be from one pressing and/or mastering to the next.

 

[megabigeye]

P.S. @megabigeye - if you had a background in photography, especially of the pre-digital, chemical processing kind, you'd know right away what "grainy" meant.

&$@#*€¥¢ I just had a post all typed out and then I switched tabs to look something up and I all got deleted. Grr. Posting on Android is a PITA on this website.

... Anyway...

I actually started doing photography in the mid-'90s on a Nikon Nikkormat, then got a Konica (I think? I can't remember) when my mom wanted her camera back. I loved working in the darkroom and always wanted to set one up at home. I recently got back into photography after a fifteen-ish year hiatus. My new Fujifilm X-T20 has the same layout as the Nikkormat I grew up with, so I feel right at home using it. I understand grain in photography but fail to understand how it translates to audio.
My signature is a reference to using the glossary on this website to recursively look up the definitions of audiophile jargon.

But this is all the subject for another thread. Back to the topic at hand.

 

[tomb]

&$@#*€¥¢ I just had a post all typed out and then I switched tabs to look something up and I all got deleted. Grr. Posting on Android is a PITA on this website.

... Anyway...

I actually started doing photography in the mid-'90s on a Nikon Nikkormat, then got a Konica (I think? I can't remember) when my mom wanted her camera back. I loved working in the darkroom and always wanted to set one up at home. I recently got back into photography after a fifteen-ish year hiatus. My new Fujifilm X-T20 has the same layout as the Nikkormat I grew up with, so I feel right at home using it. I understand grain in photography but fail to understand how it translates to audio.
My signature is a reference to using the glossary on this website to recursively look up the definitions of audiophile jargon.

But this is all the subject for another thread. Back to the topic at hand.

Minolta Maxxum 9000, here; before that, a Pentax K1000. Plus, I had a Beseler 23C II with an El-Nikkor lens. B&W was a lot of fun, especially working with contrast filters in the darkroom. I even did a lot of color, but loading print paper in a drum without a safe light and rolling it back and forth sort of sucked. I had a lot of blue-fogged prints compared to a single, good 8x10 every once in a while.

But if you know grain, why can't you see the analogy to sound? You lose resolution on fine detail. You start to get clumps and chunks with irregular patterns and lose coherency with the overall image. Nothing is smooth. Etc., etc.

 

[mackay maus]

Thanks for the great comments. Grain is an excellent analogy-I art directed photography back in the film era and get what you are saying. Have a high Rez, non grainy Christmas! I appreciate you taking the time to help.