[joostoo]

Hey! Theres my thread

!

I experimented for some time with this procedure. Its pretty much the only option i have, as a 15 year old rarely have enough money or freedom to get boards made professionaly.

Ive found the 2 biggest factors are paper, and the copper board used.

The best paper is either a transparency, or premium photo paper. I tend to use transparencies because they are usually cheaper.

Boards can be another issue. The boards from Radioshack never seem to get a "full" line, no matter the paper or heat. They always seem a little sketchy to me. However, the boards i order from Digikey (I believe they are made by MG Chemicals) accept the toner better and give a more solid looking line.

With all my experimenting, i have still not found a reasonable way to tin the boards, besides using flux and soldering iron (with is a royal PITA)

 

[Garbz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mofey Voodoochile eople ordering PCBs for their DACs, if you could make one easily at home? What's the reason for that?

Well I've built all my own PCBs give or take the point where one was very cheaply available and I couldn't be bothered. But I still ordered out for my DAC Reasons are very simple.

15mill wide traces (try toner transfer that one!), same sized via (my smallest bit isn't near that small), through plating which is fantastic when you are making double sided boards. I've built boards in the past where I've just forgotten the through plating and ended up where traces on the top aren't connected to the bottom simply because the pad is under a capacitor or a component wasn't populated or some such.

The fact of the matter is that while very VERY good results can be achieved, it's not worth the hassle and often isn't even possible if you have so much as 1 blind via or SSOP part on the board. (my dac had 43 vias and an SSOP chip).

 

[jl123]

Isn't there a tinning powder solution?

Fry's electronics stocks a lot of mg chemical products btw.

Oh has anyone heard about using a fish tank heater for ferric chloride? If so does it matter which one. I just might order one from circuit specialists. I got an etchin kit from fry's(mg chemicals i believe) it has everything but a heater. I wasn't going to get the 170 dollar kit.

 

[Haoleb]

I hadnt ever heard of the paper way of doing it.. The way I learned, and use is with a transparancy.. and photosensitive boards, just put em in the sun for a bit, dunk it in the developer (this is where alot of people ive seen screw up.. They leave it in too long.. bye bye protective coating!

) throw in the etch, then once all the copper is gone except your new traces, sand off coating and then into electroless tin. if available.

I just recently discovered Diptrace, which you can download for free.. Its a great way to make PCB's because theres tons of layouts already in a library. So no need to figure out lead spacings and such.

 

[Garbz]

jl123 why tin? There's lots of guides and a million different ways to do it, but I simply cover my PCB in a solder through lacquer. It also protects it from flux, and is coated faster then some vandalist decaling a phone booth.

Haoleb you are using the photo resist method. Very good for getting some really hi-def stuff. I would say this would be the method to use for sub 20mills traces.
Why use Diptrace eagle also has a huge parts library, and so does express PCB. THe difference is if you have problems with eagle we're more likely to help you here

 

[xikteny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mofey Do you guys know links to forums where industrial equipment (CAD/CNC machines) is discussed?

Check out CNCzone.com.

 

[jl123]

I wasn't saying tinning is better, I was just wondering if anyone had seen a tinning solution. I thought I had seen one before. I wasn't trying to start a tinning vs lacquer war.

What kind of lacquer do you use?

I just finished my second board and it has turned out great. My first one failed mostly because I let eagle autoroute(I suck at routing). I'm getting better at manually routing but there might be room for improvement.

It's a cmoy, I know there are much better layouts out there but I wanted to make my own.

Pic1.
Pic2.
Pic3.

 

[Garbz]

CAT. NO. NA1002 http://www.jaycar.com.au <- that's the lacquer I use.

What paper do you use. That result you got is oodles better then what I always end up with. Also my paper is too crap to do overlaying too.

Btw, tip for free. In eagle, add a plane to the solder side. I usually attach mine to ground since it's there I might as well use it. But often without the need for an actual ground plane I do it simply because it saves a heck of a lot of etchant, and allows you to do the entire board with about a table spoon in a few hundred mL of water.

 

[jl123]

Yeah I want to add a plane for those reasons you mentioned. The paper I use is JetPrint Photo Premium paper. I got it at walmart for 9 something for 25 sheets. I want to try the staples paper that tutorials mention but there isn't a staples here. The jetprint works great but I think the staples is half the price and works even better.

How do you add a plane and have it fill in with a set spacing?

 

[mono]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jl123 I wasn't saying tinning is better, I was just wondering if anyone had seen a tinning solution.

Tinnit is available many places for about $5, but it makes only a very thin plating. That should be enough to retard copper corrosion though, if that's the goal.

Other times the goal might be easier soldering, mechanical fortification or more current handling. I've tried other ways of tinning like using a pencil torch set on low and applying Plumber's Silver Flux on the board, it works but you have to put a ton on the board and be very careful not to overheat the board- not something you'd want to try to a finish board before practicing the technique. The flux in the Plumer's grade stuff is also corrosive and MUST be washed off completely with very strong detergent/water solution. That's not to scare you away from it, the corrosiveness of it makes it adhere to even aged low quality copper clad like found at some surplus electronics 'sites, but it is most definitely not something that can just be wiped off or left on the board when it's finished.

The board you posted has very thin traces though, I'll usually make them wider anywhere they need not be so thin. Since the particular design needs no really wide traces, with it or similar you could probably tin that by simply smearing flux all over it, then taking some desoldering wick that had been used, had solder in it, then lay a semi-broad tipped iron on top of the wick and just drag it along the traces. If you had too much solder in the wick it would likely end up uneven but with only a little in the wick it comes out fairly uniform but still not quite perfect. If it is too thick just reapply flux and drag a clean piece of wick over it again, keeping the wick moving from one end to the other of each trace instead of lifting in the middle of one.

 

[Garbz]

Dammit we don't have that paper in the australia either! No Stapes, No JetPrint. The Cannon paper I use atm doesn't peel properly. I can rub it till the cows come home but there'll always be a little bit stuck in the traces. That prevents me from properly etching so i need to carefully trace the gaps with an artwork knife to clear them.

 

[jl123]

The jet print paper is great. I can't imagine the staples paper being any better. I lay the glossy side(printed) down on the copper, heat it up for under a minute, immediately dunk it in water and peel it off. I dont even wait for the paper to break up or any crap like that. The glossy side just releases the toner perfectly.

I made another board today after making some adjustments to the design. On the first one I was going to have to use a jumper but I figured out how to route it.

 

[mofey]

xikteny

Thanks for the link.

 

[vesik]

I have to admit that I'm a big DIY junkie with a huge stack of copper-clad board in my closet, but after finding batchpcb.com, I rarely take the time to etch boards manually.

I don't have any affiliation with them:
http://www.batchpcb.com/

They bundle orders together to offer a very low $2.50/square inch + $10 setup /shipping fee. I've used them for a few prototypes with good results. They can even route the board into a variety of shapes. (Saves my lungs)


Vesik

 

[splaz]

Quote:

Where can you buy blank copper boards from?

You can buy off cuts from PCB manufacturers.

Really cheap too.

Of course if you're doing massive boards you'd have to be lucky to get the right size but for small boards it's great.

Was something like $25AU for a kilo compared to $25AU for a 300 x 300 sheet.