[davehutch]

I was having a discussion over on the True-Fi thread about whether or not you could take a mid-fi headphone and by using EQ, turn it into a 'more expensive-sounding' headphone.
I think we agree that tonality is one thing and can be adjusted by EQ to some extent. Some headphones react differently to varying amounts of EQ and where they on the limit somewhere in the spectrum, added attenuation may induce distortion, which could be good but is most likely bad.
Then there are the technicalities of the headphone, such as ability to play transients, damping, attack, low level detail retrieval, soundstage, imaging etc. etc. for which simple EQ'ing cannot compensate.
Now, I've seen the Chesky Headphone Demonstration files which I think I'll purchase soon, but wondered if, somewhere on this vast forum, anyone had ever thought about posting short examples (copyright permitting of course) of music that clearly demonstrates the ability of various headphones to achieve the technicalities listed above, plus others.
For example, someone might post a 30 second sample of a track and say...'At the point the drums enter, you can clearly place each tomtom about 4 feet in front and to right of you and if you listen closely, the resonance of the skin is apparent and the initial attack is quite startling, whilst underneath, the bass line is nicely separated and you can follow the notes clearly. The size of the room seems bout 20ft long and fairly lively/reflective'...or something of that nature.
I just figured that everyone on here struggles to some extent to demonstrate what make a technical competent (read expensive) headphone and it would be great to have some clear examples of what we should all be trying to hear.

Of course, once you have a technically competent headphone, tonality and 'presentation' would be a personal choice (all of this is much like choosing loudspeakers) and then EQ could also be used if appropriate.

A starting point would be great, or we could all just buy the Chesky CD
Comments appreciated.

 

[SHAMuuu]

One of the better comments I have come across was listening to live type performances with audiences; this is, to see whether one could pick up on the conversations between the patrons.

Some of the suggestions were to listen to "Jazz at the Pawnshop" type of recordings thought I am not saying this is where you will find the differences per se.

Also another point I thought was interesting was listening to the authenticity of the timbre of clapping/ fingersnaps. Could be from one of those Chesky records. Though I have come across this point elsewhere.

For me , the only thing that matters most is the intimacy/ authenticity of one's favorite artist/s in stripped down acoustic or acapella recordings.

Just throwing a few thoughts that came to mind atm.

 

[davehutch]

My taste is similar e.g. acoustic jazz so there are plenty of clues as I used to sing with jazz trios and play in a big band. So I know what instruments should sound like, but I imagine it's very difficult for electronic music listeners or heavy, produce rock which will have little or no 'natural' cues.
I'd be interested to hear some more views.

 

[Roderick]

Thing is that chesky and other high quality recordings sound good with just about any decent headphone. They are too easy Imo to properly evaluate headphones. Of Course ymmv.

About recommendations... Check out Tracy chapman's bridges. It is quite easy to check headphones vertical performance with it. It starts with guitar and when she starts to sing it should sound like it is coming above the guitar. Pretty cool when you hear it

 

[Redcarmoose]

I normally use only two or three albums to test headphones. My system could be flawed but so far it’s worked pretty good. I start off with TDSotM and go straight from the beginning. If I can hear the slight buzz of the equipment before the music starts then I judge how sensitive the headphone is. Next is what is referred to as the heartbeat. The beat is to the slight right like you were facing a person and could hear their heart beat. For whatever reason this works to judge bass response as I’ve heard the first song on TDSotM hundreds of times. I then listen to the rest of the 1st half of the album. After the chimes end on “Time” there is a warm and complex bass note which I guess is synth and electric bass combined. That specific note tells me a bunch about placement, tone and attack. The single set of notes also contains a wide spectrum showing bass-midrange and even some treble all at once. Being able to reproduce this single attack is quite the challenge.

Then I normally listen to Stairway To Heaven or The Rain Song off Houses of the Holy. The Rain Song is always good to hear how natural the guitar reproduction is. If a headphone has a defect in guitar reproduction then I seem to always notice it as un-natural on “The Rain Song”.

About 3/4th of the way in on “The Rain Song” there is a slight wavy drum accent which can get lost or placed in the wrong place in the mix. The drums almost sound like a locomotive in a way. That single sound is tricky and can be either not heard at all or done with too much bass if the response is off. The song is excellent to test vocals too.

But....that single wavy drum sound is also my estimate of resolution. Though it can be heard with more treble and still acceptable by more mid-centric transducers. If done right it has a tone which is unmistakable.

What I’m listening for is naturalness in response as I’ve known these songs for 40 years + and can always tell right off if something is not right.

Another album I use is Stella by the band Yello. This album came out in the mid-eighties and is actually a challenge to get the reverb right for most systems and headphones. Balanced armatures never get it right, but good dynamic drivers powered by a great amp behind a good source get all the reverb to sound correct on a listen. This is also a good album to judge decay and detail layering as if the layering is not there with the headphone it’s an album that can become a complete mess rather quickly.


So I can’t really put into words what to listen for. But if you have two or three pieces of music which are well recorded then you have a baseline.


After becoming intimate with the recording on reference gear, you’ll know how correct sounds. After that if any headphone does not do a correct response you’ll know it. Mostly if you try and dissect the whole she-bang it’s too much to concentrate on.

It would be like someone testing a camera and looking at a photograph of a painting. If they know the painting well they can tell you the defects of the camera in areas rather quickly. Stella is also the test for imaging as there is so much placement of track-elements in the mix.

What we are striving at is faithful reproduction. Still you need to have exposure to how things are meant to sound before you can judge anything.

A classical concert musician could also tell you what’s off right away as they have sat and listened to live instruments for years and know the tone needed for faithful reproduction.

 

[davehutch]

I normally use only two or three albums to test headphones. My system could be flawed but so far it’s worked pretty good. I start off with TDSotM and go straight from the beginning. If I can hear the slight buzz of the equipment before the music starts then I judge how sensitive the headphone is. Next is what is referred to as the heartbeat. The beat is to the slight right like you were facing a person and could hear their heart beat. For whatever reason this works to judge bass response as I’ve heard the first song on TDSotM hundreds of times. I then listen to the rest of the 1st half of the album. After the chimes end on “Time” there is a warm and complex bass note which I guess is synth and electric bass combined. That specific note tells me a bunch about placement, tone and attack. The single set of notes also contains a wide spectrum showing bass-midrange and even some treble all at once. Being able to reproduce this single attack is quite the challenge.

Then I normally listen to Stairway To Heaven or The Rain Song off Houses of the Holy. The Rain Song is always good to hear how natural the guitar reproduction is. If a headphone has a defect in guitar reproduction then I seem to always notice it as un-natural on “The Rain Song”.

About 3/4th of the way in on “The Rain Song” there is a slight wavy drum accent which can get lost or placed in the wrong place in the mix. The drums almost sound like a locomotive in a way. That single sound is tricky and can be either not heard at all or done with too much bass if the response is off. The song is excellent to test vocals too.

But....that single wavy drum sound is also my estimate of resolution. Though it can be heard with more treble and still acceptable by more mid-centric transducers. If done right it has a tone which is unmistakable.

What I’m listening for is naturalness in response as I’ve known these songs for 30 years and can always tell right off if something is not right.

Another album I use is Stella by the band Yello. This album came out in the mid-eighties and is actually a challenge to get the reverb right for most systems and headphones. Balanced armatures never get it right, but good dynamic drivers powered by a great amp behind a good source get all the reverb to sound correct on a listen. This is also a good album to judge decay and detail layering as if the layering is not there with the headphone it’s an album that can become a complete mess rather quickly.


So I can’t really put into words what to listen for. But if you have two or three pieces of music which are well recorded then you have a baseline.


After becoming intimate with the recording on reference gear, you’ll know how correct sounds. After that if any headphone does not do a correct response you’ll know it. Mostly if you try and dissect the whole she-bang it’s too much to concentrate on.

It would be like someone testing a camera and looking at a photograph of a painting. If they know the painting well they can tell you the defects of the camera in areas rather quickly. Stella is also the test for imaging as there is so much placement of track-elements in the mix.

What we are striving at is faithful reproduction. Still you need to have exposure to how things are meant to sound before you can judge anything.

A classical concert musician could also tell you what’s off right away as they have sat and listened to live instruments for years and know the tone needed for faithful reproduction.

^^ This is good stuff. Very useful, thanks for sharing

 

[dwinnert]

I have been to hundreds of concerts. Seen bands from Black Flag to Buddy Rich. Been to classical performances from chamber to the Hollywood Bowl. AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Slayer. I have also been to a bunch of studio recordings, latest was Red Hot Chili Peppers for The Getaway album.

Over the years I have had the pleasure of listening to some pretty insane systems, one being the Infinity IRS at Infinity in the 1980's in Northridge. Still...nothing sounds like live music. Even studio stuff sounds so much different when being recorded as it does when you listen to it outside the studio.

So for me, a headphone should allow me to enjoy my music and not get in the way too much. Because for me there is no way a system can recreate hearing the music being made. It's a hole you will never find the bottom of. You can get close, but there are just to many factors involved.

 

[Redcarmoose]

^^ This is good stuff. Very useful, thanks for sharing

Thank-you. Well some may argue that we have no sound remembrance. But I think we do a little. It's like remembering how stuff looks like. It's not 100% accurate but it serves to help in judging sound systems. I heard TDSotM on a 100K headphone system and it's simply 10% better than a 5K system. So you do hear a difference but you pay dearly for that difference. The truth is there are no perfect headphones, and what we do is make adjustments to ourselves for the inadequacy which we know is in our response. It's being happy with the issues that is the key to happiness. Simply put.........if you have never explored what close to perfect is in reproduction, you have no way to know what to look for. That is the key for most of us unless we are musicians and have an ear for how stuff is suppose to sound. The problem is that as a group it's hard to know what is correct. There is hype on a new headphone, everyone buys it, then a defect starts to emerge in what the headphone does, now everyone hears the problem because they were shown what it was. So you can imagine how hard it is for a single person to judge a headphone. What we do is respond to a euphoric tone and buy. Later we find that the response is not perfect. The question is how close to your personal signature the headphone is, and if you truly know what you like. Some reviewers get the sound described in a nut-shell and it helps people purchase, still no one is listening with all the same gear. Some gear is better for certain headphones.

But the reviewer has maybe graphed out what their system does, thinks it's a flat response and figures that the system is correct to test every headphone. It's simply not definitive as there are way too many variables. That's why even the best reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I have been to hundreds of concerts. Seen bands from Black Flag to Buddy Rich. Been to classical performances from chamber to the Hollywood Bowl. AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Slayer. I have also been to a bunch of studio recordings, latest was Red Hot Chili Peppers for The Getaway album.

Over the years I have had the pleasure of listening to some pretty insane systems, one being the Infinity IRS at Infinity in the 1980's in Northridge. Still...nothing sounds like live music. Even studio stuff sounds so much different when being recorded as it does when you listen to it outside the studio.

So for me, a headphone should allow me to enjoy my music and not get in the way too much. Because for me there is no way a system can recreate hearing the music being made. It's a hole you will never find the bottom of. You can get close, but there are just to many factors involved.

Many concerts I have been to sounded really bad. But I still remember the days when I loved all concerts regardless of sound. That's what most here are trying to get back to..........the feeling of seeing Rush live in 1978. It's impossible as that was a different time a different place and special. But that's also what Head-Fi is about........experiences with music.........with headphones on.

And yes.........headphones will never replace that gut bass response when you feel the bass inside. There will never be that feeling of seeing a guy at a punk concert climb to the top of the rafters at a small club and jump onto the stage. That feeling of the moment where.........anything can happen.

But there are times when everything falls into place and headphones can create a space between your ears where you hear every detail where the message of the recording producer hits home.

 

[SilverEars]

One of the better comments I have come across was listening to live type performances with audiences; this is, to see whether one could pick up on the conversations between the patrons.

Some of the suggestions were to listen to "Jazz at the Pawnshop" type of recordings thought I am not saying this is where you will find the differences per se.

Also another point I thought was interesting was listening to the authenticity of the timbre of clapping/ fingersnaps. Could be from one of those Chesky records. Though I have come across this point elsewhere.

For me , the only thing that matters most is the intimacy/ authenticity of one's favorite artist/s in stripped down acoustic or acapella recordings.

Just throwing a few thoughts that came to mind atm.

Jazz at the Pawnshop is a good one for checking accuracy of timbre in instrumentation, textures of the instruments, holography, etc.. Similar one is waltz for Debby by Bill Evans Trio. Both are similar in ambiant noise you hear in the background being raw live recordings. Both excellent.

For vocals I like to use Diana Krall's recordings due to so much information is provided in terms her vocal characteristics.

You also want to try bass emphasized to more natural instrumental bass sounds, and also drums(that includes cymbals). Heavy rock are good to test separation and vocal mids level.

You also want to try mainstream pop music, less quality stuff as well. Also try sibilant recordings to test which sounds more exaggerated, and which is suppressing.

Try various genres like jazz, rock, hip-hop, vocal centric.

In actuality, it's not the fault of the gear that the clapping may be off tonality, can be the recording itself. You have to compare various recordings of clapping to verify that.

In order to be most familiar and find any areas of offness, you'd have to do many trials with various types of tracks.

 

[dwinnert]

Blind Faith - Blind Faith, "Do What You Like"......to me is a great headphone and speaker test.