[w00x]

Hello everyone,
 
first time poster here. This forum has been great in helping me choose my new equipment and I hope that it will be equally helpful in guiding me on how to connect it. I searched around, but there are different suggestions, none of which are exactly like my case.

I recently ordered an AKG Q 701 pair of headphones. While further research after ordering (stupid, I know, but doesn't everyone just want further verification of the great choice they made? ) I saw that several people mention a headphone amplifier to go with these. I did not want to spend a lot of money, so after a quick research, I ordered the Schiit Magni 2, which I received today. I did not order a Modi 2 DAC, since I am not really sure if I need one and this is where my questions come.
 
I want to listen to digital music on my headphones and also be able to listen to the movies I am watching during the late hours (meaning that there needs to be a connection to the receiver.)

My current equipment is as follows:

Sennheiser HD25 headphones (irrelevant in this scenario)
Yamaha V375 5.1 Receiver
Mid 2012 MacBook Pro
PC with Creative X-Fi Extreme Music audio card.
PlayStation 3

I currently listen to music from my speakers, using the MacBook connected via an optical cable to the receiver, thus using the Yamaha's DAC.

What options do I have to connect my newly ordered AKG Q701 headphones (have not received them yet) and my Schiit Magni 2 headphone amp to my current setup?
 
(I got the amp, because I read a person mentioning that the quality of the headphone jack on the V475 receiver is crap and an amp is a great improvement.)
 
Is my only option for music with the current setup to use the DAC from the MacBook straight to the headphone amp?
Will that have a great sacrifice in quality when compared to a cheap separate DAC?
When watching movies, is there a way to output from the receiver straight to the headphone amplifier or should I just use the headphone jack on the receiver? Will there be a huge and noticeable difference in the quality if the headphone amp is not used for movie watching?
 
Backplate of the receiver: http://exceptional-av.co.uk/media/catalog/product/y/a/yamaha-rxv-375-rear-large.jpg
 
Is there a way to make the connection so that I use the Yamaha DAC and output to the headphones?

There are two audio outputs on the back of the receiver, but the manual says that those are for recording purposes. I am also not sure if the receiver can re-route the optical input through the DAC and straight out the audio outputs.
 
If suggesting equipment, please have in mind that I am located in Europe and the choice here is less than it is in the US. Delivery from the US and taxes are also a pain.

I also saw someone mentioning the following connection at one point, but am not sure what and to what extend will be sacrificed in terms of quality.
Signal > Receiver > Headphone Jack > Headphone Amp > Headphones.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[thejammonster]

One of the RCA out red/white pairs to the Magni 2 should do it

 

[PurpleAngel]

I would just have everything (sources) connected straight to the receiver (V375 or V475?) and plug the headphone directly into the receiver's headphone jack.
The Yamaha can only send it Silent Cinema headphone surround sound thru the headphone output jack, not the jacks on the back panel.
Chances are the back panel jacks (RCA) are better at sending an analog audio signal to an external headphone amplifier, then the Yamaha's own headphone output jack.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
What options do I have to connect my newly ordered AKG Q701 headphones (have not received them yet) and my Schiit Magni 2 headphone amp to my current setup?
---
Backplate of the receiver: http://exceptional-av.co.uk/media/catalog/product/y/a/yamaha-rxv-375-rear-large.jpg
 
Is there a way to make the connection so that I use the Yamaha DAC and output to the headphones?

 

Try the "Audio Out" and "A/V Out" RCA jacks. However be prepared for the possibility that some sources might not connect to it, as some receivers tend to have certain design limitations for one reason or another. Like the Zone 2 output on most not affected by the preamp control or isn't hooked up to the DAC at all.

 

[w00x]

One of the RCA out red/white pairs to the Magni 2 should do it

 
Unfortunately, It seems that the AV OUT of the receiver can not output from the digital inputs. Only some of the analog ones which means that the DAC of the MacBook will be used again making the whole connection through the Receiver redundant.
 

  I would just have everything (sources) connected straight to the receiver (V375 or V475?) and plug the headphone directly into the receiver's headphone jack.
The Yamaha can only send it Silent Cinema headphone surround sound thru the headphone output jack, not the jacks on the back panel.
Chances are the back panel jacks (RCA) are better at sending an analog audio signal to an external headphone amplifier, then the Yamaha's own headphone output jack.

 
I am fine with the Headphone jack of the receiver for Movies. I am guessing that it will be capable of driving the Q701. It did fine with the Sennheiser HD25-II (volume wise). My concern is with the quality when listening to music.
 
Are you suggesting that I should just not use the Magni 2 headphone amp? I have not had the chance to test it with the AKG Q701 since I have not received them yet (a friend is bringing them from the USA. Too expensive locally). If I have to be honest, I did not notice a lot (if any) of difference when I tried the HD25s with the Magni 2 and the Yamaha headphone jack. I did not listen thoroughly, but still... I guess I was expecting too much. I will have a listen again when the AKGs arrive.
 

 

 

Try the "Audio Out" and "A/V Out" RCA jacks. However be prepared for the possibility that some sources might not connect to it, as some receivers tend to have certain design limitations for one reason or another. Like the Zone 2 output on most not affected by the preamp control or isn't hooked up to the DAC at all.

Yeah, you were right, it did not work. It skips the DAC.

---------------
 
I guess I will not be able to use the DAC of the Yamaha along with the headphone amp and am stuck to using the DAC of the MacBook for music, unless I upload music to a USB flash drive and play it through the receiver. I might do it just to test.
 
Using the following setups for the separate scenarios is completely acceptable for me.
 
Music: MacBook DAC > Magni 2 > Headphones.
Movies: Yamaha DAC > Headphone jack > Headphones.
 
I am just wondering if I am looking at a noticeable performance increase with an external DAC. Should I be looking for one?
What is your experience? Does the external DAC have a significant improvement compared to the ones in the MacBook and the receivers?

 

[PurpleAngel]

  I am fine with the Headphone jack of the receiver for Movies. I am guessing that it will be capable of driving the Q701. It did fine with the Sennheiser HD25-II (volume wise). My concern is with the quality when listening to music.
Are you suggesting that I should just not use the Magni 2 headphone amp? I have not had the chance to test it with the AKG Q701 since I have not received them yet (a friend is bringing them from the USA. Too expensive locally). If I have to be honest, I did not notice a lot (if any) of difference when I tried the HD25s with the Magni 2 and the Yamaha headphone jack. I did not listen thoroughly, but still... I guess I was expecting too much. I will have a listen again when the AKGs arrive.
 

Music: MacBook DAC > Magni 2 > Headphones.
Movies: Yamaha DAC > Headphone jack > Headphones.

 
So plug the AKG's directly into the Yamaha.
As you already have ordered (and paid) for the Magni 2 amp, might as well use it with the Mac.
If your Mac has optical output, you could connect the Mac, to the Yamaha, using optical and plug the AKG's into the Yamaha, and see how that sounds.
And compare that to having the Magni 2 plugged into the Mac (and headphones connected to the Magni.

 

[w00x]

The Mac has optical output.
This is how I have them all plugged in right now. So I guess I am just waiting for the headphones to arrive.

And how about the DAC? Is it worth having an external one?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00x /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I guess I will not be able to use the DAC of the Yamaha along with the headphone amp and am stuck to using the DAC of the MacBook for music, unless I upload music to a USB flash drive and play it through the receiver. I might do it just to test.

 

Using the following setups for the separate scenarios is completely acceptable for me.

 

Music: MacBook DAC > Magni 2 > Headphones.

Movies: Yamaha DAC > Headphone jack > Headphones.

 

I am just wondering if I am looking at a noticeable performance increase with an external DAC. Should I be looking for one?
What is your experience? Does the external DAC have a significant improvement compared to the ones in the MacBook and the receivers?

 

It won't be the DAC that will make a difference but how the analogue signal is handled. Laptop line out could have some noise and a little distortion, the output impedance of the Yamaha's headphone amp output might be too high, for the headphone, or it could have audible distortion at the output level you need, etc.

 

[PurpleAngel]

The Mac has optical output.
This is how I have them all plugged in right now. So I guess I am just waiting for the headphones to arrive.

And how about the DAC? Is it worth having an external one?

 
I'm not sure getting a DAC is really worth it.
Hopefully you have the PC and PS3 connected to the Yamaha using HDMI?
Guess optical is the best possible for MAC to Yamaha.
For Blu-ray or DVD movies you can play them from the PS3.
 
What sources do your play your music from?
Are they Audio-CD, mp3, FLAC, internet service?

 

[w00x]

 

 

It won't be the DAC that will make a difference but how the analogue signal is handled. Laptop line out could have some noise and a little distortion, the output impedance of the Yamaha's headphone amp output might be too high, for the headphone, or it could have audible distortion at the output level you need, etc.

 
Thank you, so a DAC will not be necessary. I guess I will try the three DACs I have (Yamaha DAC + Yamaha Headphone jack, MacBook DAC + Magni 2, Creative X-Fi Extreme Music DAC + Magni 2) when the headphones arrive in order to see if any difference is audible. If not, I will just use the current setup and enjoy the sound.
 
This is what it says in the manual for the receiver about the headphones jack.
 
Headphone Jack Rated Output / Impedance
AV 5 etc. (1kHz, 50 mV, 8Ω) .............................. 100m V/470Ω
 

   
I'm not sure getting a DAC is really worth it.
Hopefully you have the PC and PS3 connected to the Yamaha using HDMI?
Guess optical is the best possible for MAC to Yamaha.
For Blu-ray or DVD movies you can play them from the PS3.
 
What sources do your play your music from?
Are they Audio-CD, mp3, FLAC, internet service?

 
Every source is connected digitally. I don't have the PC connected to the Receiver setup so that is separate with a pair of Creative Gigaworks T20 speakers.
 
I use DLNA to play movies, so that is digital as well and I will be using the headphone jack of the receiver for that. No headphone amp for movies I guess. I can't use the Silent Cinema technology of the receiver without using the phones jack anyway.
 
I play the music using the MacBook currently, outputting via optical to the receiver.
I listen to FLAC, 320bit MP3 and Spotify Premium 95% of the time.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00x /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Thank you, so a DAC will not be necessary. I guess I will try the three DACs I have (Yamaha DAC + Yamaha Headphone jack, MacBook DAC + Magni 2, Creative X-Fi Extreme Music DAC + Magni 2) when the headphones arrive in order to see if any difference is audible. If not, I will just use the current setup and enjoy the sound.

 

No, what I was saying up there is that the primary concerns for getting a DAC is not the DAC chip itself, but should be:

 

1. Being able to deliver a clean line output signal to the amplifier, and

2. (also related to the first) Connectivity options - the inputs and outputs you need

 

Basically it isn't the DAC chip that you should buy a DAC unit for, but whether it can get you the right inputs that you can or prefer to use, and a proper line output. The Yamaha receiver has a DAC but no line output from it at all, so it fails on the output side, not just in quality but it doesn't even do that to begin with; then there's the problem of whether its headphone output is good enough for whatever headphone you have or might have in the future. With the Macbook, the problem is that the earphone output on a laptop is not really a purpose-built line output, so tendency is you might get some noise and distortion. In either case. Including the X-Fi, if there is any difference, it isn't in terms of the DAC chip but in nearly all cases a matter of how the analogue signal after that chip is handled, including whatever amp you can use on any (especially the Yamaha's headphone output vs the Magni).

 

[w00x]

 

 

No, what I was saying up there is that the primary concerns for getting a DAC is not the DAC chip itself, but should be:

 

1. Being able to deliver a clean line output signal to the amplifier, and

2. (also related to the first) Connectivity options - the inputs and outputs you need

 

Basically it isn't the DAC chip that you should buy a DAC unit for, but whether it can get you the right inputs that you can or prefer to use, and a proper line output. The Yamaha receiver has a DAC but no line output from it at all, so it fails on the output side, not just in quality but it doesn't even do that to begin with; then there's the problem of whether its headphone output is good enough for whatever headphone you have or might have in the future. With the Macbook, the problem is that the earphone output on a laptop is not really a purpose-built line output, so tendency is you might get some noise and distortion. In either case. Including the X-Fi, if there is any difference, it isn't in terms of the DAC chip but in nearly all cases a matter of how the analogue signal after that chip is handled, including whatever amp you can use on any (especially the Yamaha's headphone output vs the Magni).

Thanks for the explanation, but I am a little confused now.

I currently have a satisfactory setup input-wise. I plug the headphones into the Magni for music listening and I plug them into the Yamaha for movie watching. This is perfectly fine for me.

I am just worried about significant/audible quality loss with either of those setups as opposed to having a separate DAC. I will still have to use the Yamaha headphone output for movie watching, regardless of whether I have a separate DAC or not, so a separate DAC will substitute only the one in the MacBook which I am currently using for music output to the Magni amp.
 
If I understand correctly, you are saying that the problem may come after the DAC chip itself? Would that be the quality of the jacks of the equipment that the analog (3,5 / RCA) cable is plugged into? Or the amplifier I am going to use with each of those setups?
 
If after I do my tests once the headphones are here, I do not notice any difference in quality when using the 3 available setups, is it safe to say that an external DAC will not be necessary as long as I am satisfied with the output options in the two different scenarios (movies/music)?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00x /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the problem may come after the DAC chip itself? Would that be the quality of the jacks of the equipment that the analog (3,5 / RCA) cable is plugged into? Or the amplifier I am going to use with each of those setups?

 

All of that - the analog output stage after the DAC chip is the most important part as far as comparing a DAC unit or CD Player to another a general purpose device like a computer without a soundcard with an output stage design more akin to a DAC. Then there's the cable (although I wouldn't really think too much about that, just get BlueJeansCable or similar, or even Monoprice), and then the amplifier.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00x /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I am just worried about significant/audible quality loss with either of those setups as opposed to having a separate DAC. I will still have to use the Yamaha headphone output for movie watching, regardless of whether I have a separate DAC or not, so a separate DAC will substitute only the one in the MacBook which I am currently using for music output to the Magni amp.

 

If it's primarily for movies the thing about using the receiver's DAC is that you get to use any DSP tricks, like surround sound simulation on 2ch headphones if it has such a feature. Another thing that's important to note here is that while movies also require nearly the same stuff as 2ch audio except in surround - ie dynamic range, current delivery, clean power, etc - there's a bigger wiggle room for what counts as audible distortion in movies than audio. While in the latter for example a little bit of audible distortion can put the bass drum too forward or sound like a snare drum stuffed with a pillow, in movies it's not like you'll notice that this explosion sounds a bit "off" barring very audible distortion, clipping, or overexcursion of the drivers. Not to mention your attention span is split between the audio and video whereas in audio (preferably) you're listening in a dark room with no distractions.

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00x /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

If after I do my tests once the headphones are here, I do not notice any difference in quality when using the 3 available setups, is it safe to say that an external DAC will not be necessary as long as I am satisfied with the output options in the two different scenarios (movies/music)?

 

For the most part, yes. But then again maybe the absence of a difference in quality isn't because all the gear you have are working properly, but because they all have certain flaws that just get the same end result, on top of which maybe the lower damping factor of a high output impedance headphone output on the receiver (not even sure if this is the case with your receiver, but most manufacturers do ignore this problem) vs the Magni isn't even audible to you.

 

That said, it's not like a better DAC will help with movies, so in the long run maybe saving up for an HD700 or T1 with higher impedance will be more useful than a DAC in getting some improvement on all fronts. Or, heck, if $100 isn't too expensive, then might as well use one with the Macbook. At least with music you might get an improvement, but again, there's no way to tell if you will be able to hear some differences, because if there's any, barring very problematic designs the differences between such devices and even some mainstream devices are subtle - tighter bass, more precise location of instruments on the soundstage, etc - and won't make for a day and night comparison. For those who can hear a difference of course the imaging improvements are very important, it's just that we're not sure if you can appreciate that even if you can hear it.