[revels7]

So, I've been looking on here for a while trying to make up my mind and finally decided to just go ahead and start the 10 millionth thread like this to get some advice.  

A little idea of my novice status:  I currently have a 4-year-old set of Sennheiser HD 439s, some Sennheiser PX 100iis for when storage space is limited and a Fiio E6 portable amp that's a few years old.  I usually listen through my phone, currently a Samsung G5...but will be either newer Samsung or iPhone at some point...or nothing-fancy home stereo receivers.  I occasionally listen on my laptop, but that's rare.  I stream a lot of my music or purchase online and haven't gotten into FLAC, although I might also pick up a dedicated DAP at some point...who knows. 

Basically, I'm looking to step up to the "next level."  My musical tastes are nothing off-the-wall...hip-hop/rap from 80s to current, pop, 80s rock, EDM, old-school blues, classic rock...

What I'm looking for is a good quality "all-arounder" with good balance.  I wouldn't call myself a basshead, but I definitely want it there, with good quality throughout the rest of the spectrum...you know the drill.  Probably more toward "warm" than "analytical" sound.  My narrowed down list has led me here:

Sennheiser HD 650
Hifiman HE400i
Audio Technica ATH-MSR7

I know, the list automatically gets a little shorter if I could make up my mind on open vs closed, but not sure how that affects the sound quality.
 
Depending on the impedance of the headphones, I'd be willing to pair it with an amp, but again, would be a portable one to put in line with my phone.  There I'm down to either a Fiio A3, A5 or E12A.
 
Do your worst.  A setup with some combo of those components or should I look elsewhere?

 

[dudlew]

Never heard any of your suggestions.... but if u are looking to a warm sound sig.. not sure if the AT is a good bet from what I have read. Also. I hear alot of comments about how hard the 650 is to drive.

If u have the ability to try.... do so. Listen to as much as u can. That will give u an idea of what u like. You also sound like u want the setup to remain portable. What about budget? Maybe something like an Audio quest Dragonfly black or red might be your best bet? Allowing u to upgrade ur source at the same time?

Give us more info such as budget and a better idea of how and where u plan to use this setup and u might get more specific answers.

D

 

[PL4Y3R 0N3]

I'd recommend the Meze 99 Classics. They have an amazingly fun sound signature with slightly elevated mid bass but still good extension down low, mids that don't seem recessed (to me, but to others maybe), and non fatiguing highs. They are pretty light, the self adjusting headband makes for a good fit, and they seem pretty sturdy from my experience with them. They are also super easy to drive, easier than the IEMs I have, so you shouldn't need to get a super powerful amp.
Just something to look into. Here's the review that really sold me on them:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/meze-99-classics-very-fun-very-tasty

 

[revels7]

Never heard any of your suggestions.... but if u are looking to a warm sound sig.. not sure if the AT is a good bet from what I have read. Also. I hear alot of comments about how hard the 650 is to drive.

If u have the ability to try.... do so. Listen to as much as u can. That will give u an idea of what u like. You also sound like u want the setup to remain portable. What about budget? Maybe something like an Audio quest Dragonfly black or red might be your best bet? Allowing u to upgrade ur source at the same time?

Give us more info such as budget and a better idea of how and where u plan to use this setup and u might get more specific answers.

D

I have read the thing about the Senns being hard to drive on here as well, that's why I thought an amp might help.  I could be wrong though.  

Thanks for the heads up on the ATs.  

My total budget is about $400.  I guess I "plan" to continue to use it the same way I have thus far... .mp3s, streamed music on my phone mostly and then on the home theater system when I want to avoid disturbing everyone else in the house.  At the same time, "plans" change I guess, so I might upgrade my source in the future.  I'd rather overshoot the source at this point, rather than have something that's not up to snuff and need to replace if/when I do upgrade the source, if you know what I mean.   

 

[dudlew]

Do some research on the dragonfly dac/amp. From all reports it's really good. And might be all u need. It should plug straight into ur phone or computer with no issues. And the black is only 100 I think. So u can spend 100 there and 300 on the headphone. And if u plan to upgrade then use it as a dac and upgrade the amp.

 

[revels7]

  I'd recommend the Meze 99 Classics. They have an amazingly fun sound signature with slightly elevated mid bass but still good extension down low, mids that don't seem recessed (to me, but to others maybe), and non fatiguing highs. They are pretty light, the self adjusting headband makes for a good fit, and they seem pretty sturdy from my experience with them. They are also super easy to drive, easier than the IEMs I have, so you shouldn't need to get a super powerful amp.
Just something to look into. Here's the review that really sold me on them:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/meze-99-classics-very-fun-very-tasty

Thanks for the heads-up.  I haven't heard of them before.  Will def check out the info.

 

[dudlew]

If u really don't want to touch the source... then look for efficient headphones. Something like the nighthawk which is on sale for 350 can be a good choice to look at... but with its sound being polarizing... it's worth a listen first before u buy. I personally enjoy it and consider it at least on par with the pm3 from Oppo and better than my other headphones

 

[revels7]

If u really don't want to touch the source... then look for efficient headphones. Something like the nighthawk which is on sale for 350 can be a good choice to look at... but with its sound being polarizing... it's worth a listen first before u buy. I personally enjoy it and consider it at least on par with the pm3 from Oppo and better than my other headphones

OK...silly question...what do you mean by "efficient?"

 

[PL4Y3R 0N3]

OK...silly question...what do you mean by "efficient?"

Pretty sure he means high sensitivity. There are two measurements you need to measure how well a source will drive a headphone, and those are impedance and sensitivity. Headphone impedance will tell you how much power it will receive from the amplifier and sensitivity will tell you how loud the power will drive the headphone. Low sensitivity = really hard to drive, high sensitivity = really easy to drive, low impedance usually means they will receive more power from the source, high impedance means they will receive less.
At least I think that is how it works. I may be wrong. I am no audio engineer.

 

[serman005]

I like the HD600 or the HE400S. The 400S doesn't require an amp, the HD600 obviously does. I prefer open cans whenever possible.

 

[dudlew]

Pretty sure he means high sensitivity. There are two measurements you need to measure how well a source will drive a headphone, and those are impedance and sensitivity. Headphone impedance will tell you how much power it will receive from the amplifier and sensitivity will tell you how loud the power will drive the headphone. Low sensitivity = really hard to drive, high sensitivity = really easy to drive, low impedance usually means they will receive more power from the source, high impedance means they will receive less.
At least I think that is how it works. I may be wrong. I am no audio engineer.

 
 
Me neither, but that is my basic understanding of it.. lol
 
D

 

[Dulalala]

Pretty sure he means high sensitivity. There are two measurements you need to measure how well a source will drive a headphone, and those are impedance and sensitivity. Headphone impedance will tell you how much power it will receive from the amplifier and sensitivity will tell you how loud the power will drive the headphone. Low sensitivity = really hard to drive, high sensitivity = really easy to drive, low impedance usually means they will receive more power from the source, high impedance means they will receive less.
At least I think that is how it works. I may be wrong. I am no audio engineer.

Close haha. Missing some info since there is an exception to the high/low impedance thing. Solid State amps usually have lower ouput power at higher impedance while OTL amps tend to have higher output power at higher impedance. Sensitivity is measured in dB/mW so that just means, for example if it is rated at 100 dB/mW, it requires 1 mW of power to get to 100 dB. 
 

 hear alot of comments about how hard the 650 is to drive.

The HD650 is not hard to drive. It benefits from an amp but by no means does it require one. It is quite efficient actually compared to the HE400i which is harder to drive (and HD600 is also slightly harder to drive, it's rated at 97 dB/V while HD650 is 103 dB/V). The HE400i requires 50 mW to get to 110 dB while the HD650 requires 17 mW.

 

[revels7]

Thanks for the tech data.  How does impedance factor into it?  For example...Sennheiser says the HD600 has a 300 ohm impedance, and the Fiio A3 says it's recommended for headphones from 16-150 ohms.  How does that affect performance?  Do you have to get the A5 amp, which is recommended up to 300 ohms or your missing out on something?  
 
Sorry for asking questions that I'm sure have been asked/answered a million times here.

 

[Dulalala]

Thanks for the tech data.  How does impedance factor into it?  For example...Sennheiser says the HD600 has a 300 ohm impedance, and the Fiio A3 says it's recommended for headphones from 16-150 ohms.  How does that affect performance?  Do you have to get the A5 amp, which is recommended up to 300 ohms or your missing out on something?  

Sorry for asking questions that I'm sure have been asked/answered a million times here.

It's just the recommended range that the headphone impedance should be at because if an amp is not powerful enough, the output power will be too low at higher impedance. When powering headphones, it's usually ideal to leave some headroom for power because at higher power outputs, the amp might distort. Also, the impedance curve of the headphone makes it so that the power the headphone receives is not constant over the entire frequency range.

 

[revels7]

It's just the recommended range that the headphone impedance should be at because if an amp is not powerful enough, the output power will be too low at higher impedance. When powering headphones, it's usually ideal to leave some headroom for power because at higher power outputs, the amp might distort. Also, the impedance curve of the headphone makes it so that the power the headphone receives is not constant over the entire frequency range.

OK, so lastly...if I do end up opting for the Senns, with the 300 ohm impedance, I'd be best off getting an amp that is rated for up to 300 ohm, and if I get one that is only recommended up to 150, it would be a stretch for the amp's power output?  Otherwise it looks like many other headphones have lower impedance I wouldn't have to worry about it.
 
The Fiio E6 amp I have is rated up to a recommended 300 ohm, so I suppose I could also get a DAC and stack them, right?  I'd rather just have one other thing in the line rather than both a DAC and an amp, but it doesn't look like any of the DAC/AMP single units go up to 300 ohm.  They seem to only go up to 150 ohm.
 
Thanks again for the insight.