[-Axle-]

Hello everyone, new member here.
 
I've done some reading but have come across so much information that I'm a little lost at the moment in terms of direction.  Since this seems like a good community, I thought I'd join in and see if anyone can give any general advice, recommendations, or pointme in a specific direction.
 
Here's my needs:
-Looking for full-size headphones.  Over-ear or On-ear.  No IEMs.
-Open, Semi-Open, Closed.  I have no preference.
-Needed for HT (movies) as well as Music, about even split.
-I don't expect long listening sessions (avg 1hr, 2hrs max)
-Comfort is secondary to SQ.
-Not interested in wireless
-Not interested in noise-cancelling
-Not willing to invest in a headphone amplifier or additional EQ tweaking (will be connected to an AVR receiver or PC speakers (Logitech Z623)).
-Not willing to spend over $300 on a single set (as I'll ultimately need 2).  Prefer to spend less if possible (big surprise).
 
Here's my background:
-I'm used to listening to full tower speakers (Energy RC-70, PSB Image T6) at home.  On the road, I use a pair of IEMs (Sennheiser CX870) that I'm okay with (sound fine, but could imagine better).
-I'm a fan of neutral sound but don't mind a bass bump (specifically in HT)
-I don't have much experience with full-size heaphones.
-I recently purchased a pair of Superlux HD-681 EVOs based on reviews.  My opinion of them is that they're "ok".  I feel like I can't turn them up too loud as they start to hurt my ears (perhaps too bright? or distorting? they were hooked up to a Yamaha Receiver, HTR-6060)
 
Here's what I came up with on my own (not much)
-HiFiMan HE-400
Based on review from CNet.  On here, they don't seem as highly rated.  My sole concern with these is that they won't sound good without a dedicated headphone amplifier (anyone can comment?)
-Superlux HD-681 EVO
I bought these based on reviews from here as well as RFD.  They're ok, but leave me wanting something better.  I was also looking at the Samson SR-850 but scratched that off the list after my experience with the Superlux (willing to reconsider if there is a good reason).
-Audio Technica ATH-M50
These seemed like the defacto headphones for the ~$200 range, except common feedback says not to spend more than $130 on them as I guess they're routinely on sale.  I'm not sure what to expect with these headphones because there is so much positive about them, yet they seem inexpensive (can my solution really be this easy?)
-Sennheiser? Sony? Koss?
 
Sorry for the long post, trying to be as detailed as possible without wasting anyone's time.  FWIW, my search came about as we have a 1yr old and expecting a newborn in January.  My wife and I barely have a chance to watch movies (or do anything by ourselves really, lol) and we wanted to get a pair of headphones we could use at home for late night watching.  I don't expect to hear what I hear with my towers, but would like to get as close as possible within the budget mentioned.
 
Any advice, recommendations, or pointers is highly appreciated.

 

[cel4145]

Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet

I can recommend the Soundmagic HP150. More of a neutral class of headphone, but with some small emphasis of treble and bass. Has good bass extension, too. In comparison to my M50s, the HP150 have better bass, treble, and mid SQ in terms of detail resolution. Better soundstage and imaging. A better class of headphone. The only advantage M50 has, IMO, is even more bass emphasis *if* you are into that. But the mids are more recessed. Given that you have the RC-70s (I have RC-50s/RC-LCR/Veritas VS Surrounds), the HP150 would probably suit you better than M50 unless you run your sub fairly hot and have the midbass EQd up as well. Here are frequency response charts:



http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50B2012.pdf

Innerfidelity is a good place for frequency response charts. And then headphone.com in their build a graph section where you can select and compare headphones that they have measured. Also check out Golden Ears. Expect some slight variation between frequency response measurements between those three different sites because of differences in measuring equipment and the compensation curve they apply.

HE-400 have excellent detail resolution because of the planar magnetics (think Maggies) and are a fantastic value for their current price (you can get open box like new ones from Razordog). Upper mids are a little recessed (see Innerfidelity's measurements). HE-400 can be kind of heavy to some people--might not be a good choice for the wife.

Also consider that open headphones may not be a good choice if one of you wants to watch a movie while the other is doing things to make noise or wants to sleep. Closed headphones are much better for isolation.

If you are going with two headphones and will split the signal from your receiver, you'll definitely probably want two of the same. Otherwise, difference in impedance and sensitivity will like cause one headphone to be driven louder than the other at the same volume setting.

Superlux are very good headphones for their price. But you can definitely do better

 

[blueangel2323]

If you can find a pair of used B&W P7 for $300 that would be my recommendation for HT. The sub bass on these is as close as you can get to a subwoofer, and a very well tuned subwoofer at that. Treble is world class and mids aren't left behind or recessed in any way. The mids are rather dry, not euphonic, which may or may not be your preference when it comes to music, but for movies it doesn't matter.

 

[-Axle-]

Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet 

 
LOL, thanks for the advance notice.
 

I can recommend the Soundmagic HP150....

 

Thank you for the detailed explanation, that really helps me understand and is what I was looking for.
 
Just to confirm, would the lack of a dedicated headphone amp affect the recommendation at all?  The ATH-M50 are much easier to find.
 
Quote:

HE-400 have excellent detail resolution because of the planar magnetics (think Maggies) and are a fantastic value for their current price (you can get open box like new ones from Razordog). Upper mids are a little recessed (see Innerfidelity's measurements). HE-400 can be kind of heavy to some people--might not be a good choice for the wife.

 


Maggies are exactly what I thought of when I read about the HE-400.  Sadly, I've never heard Maggies in person, but knew of their reputation.
 
Also, thanks for the Razordog pointer! I was not aware of that, great deal.
 
In terms of weight, I'm not too worried for my wife since they likely won't be worn long and she'll probably be lying down anyways.
 
Quote:

Also consider that open headphones may not be a good choice if one of you wants to watch a movie while the other is doing things to make noise or wants to sleep. Closed headphones are much better for isolation.

 

Not really concerned about open headphones since our daughter is on another floor (distant enough) and the headphones will only be used in the HT room or PC room (which is not close to the bedrooms).
 
Quote:

Superlux are very good headphones for their price. But you can definitely do better 

 

In your opinion, will spending 2x-3x as much as I did for the Superlux translate to 2x-3x better performance?
 
I'm a little concerned since I know what to expect with speakers, except I can return speakers if I'm not happy.  With headphones, I find it challenging to commit to anything I haven't heard (let alone how challenging it can be to find somewhere to hear them WITH your own device instead of the demo reel they hook them up to)
 
Thanks again for all your help.

 

[-Axle-]

  If you can find a pair of used B&W P7 for $300 that would be my recommendation for HT. The sub bass on these is as close as you can get to a subwoofer, and a very well tuned subwoofer at that. Treble is world class and mids aren't left behind or recessed in any way. The mids are rather dry, not euphonic, which may or may not be your preference when it comes to music, but for movies it doesn't matter.

The challenge would be finding TWO at that price (since ultimately I need 2).
 
So does that mean I shouldn't consider the HE-400 at all?
(would the HE-400 be good for movies at all?)

 

[blueangel2323]

  The challenge would be finding TWO at that price (since ultimately I need 2).
 
So does that mean I shouldn't consider the HE-400 at all?
(would the HE-400 be good for movies at all?)

I have not heard the HE-400 without an amp, so I can't speak to whether it would work for you. My understanding is that planars in general tend to be power hungry, and the HE-400 is likely no exception. Also, my general observation is that used HE-400's tend to be more than $300. If you can find one in your budget and you have even a modest amp, they are excellent. Bass has more texture and detail than the P7 but isn't as boosted.

 

[cel4145]

In your opinion, will spending 2x-3x as much as I did for the Superlux translate to 2x-3x better performance?

The answer to that question is related to personal value AND personal tastes regarding the specific headphones. Do you think your RC-70s were worth 2x-3x as much as the budget entry level Polk Monitor/TSi series towers? That's probably the best answer to your question

 

[-Axle-]

The answer to that question is related to personal value AND personal tastes regarding the specific headphones. Do you think your RC-70s were worth 2x-3x as much as the budget entry level Polk Monitor/TSi series towers? That's probably the best answer to your question

You're right but I don't have to like it.

 

[cel4145]

The challenge would be finding TWO at that price (since ultimately I need 2).

I have heard the B&W's only briefly, and I definitely feel that they do not provide twice the price improvement over the HP150s. Also see this comparison of the P7s with the PSB headphones and the HP150s: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-channel-audio/1634849-what-get-psb-m4u-1-vs-bowers-wilkins-p7-soundmagic-hp-150-a.html#post26658737 (read a couple of posts).

I have not heard the HE-400 without an amp, so I can't speak to whether it would work for you. My understanding is that planars in general tend to be power hungry, and the HE-400 is likely no exception. Also, my general observation is that used HE-400's tend to be more than $300.

My impression is that Razordog may have multiple pairs at that price. Email and ask.

But I agree with blueangel. HE-400s are fairly insensitive and a bit difficult to drive as a result. However, a receiver generally has decent headphone amplifier power. Probably not to worry with those. Can't say the same for your computer. Too difficult to predict.

 

[-Axle-]

  I have not heard the HE-400 without an amp, so I can't speak to whether it would work for you. My understanding is that planars in general tend to be power hungry, and the HE-400 is likely no exception. Also, my general observation is that used HE-400's tend to be more than $300. If you can find one in your budget and you have even a modest amp, they are excellent. Bass has more texture and detail than the P7 but isn't as boosted.

cel4145 actually gave me a great link where they can be found for $250 (see his post).  Shipping to me is $30 which comes to $280.
 
In the reviews, people indicate that they sound "great" without an amp, but do benefit from one.
 
Do any of these online shops offer returns / exchanges on headphones?  I'd be willing to pay a small premium if I knew I could switch headphones or get my money back from any of the models mentioned.

 

[blueangel2323]

Sorry I missed that. At that price I wouldn't hesitate to get a pair! They're amazing headphones. If you find that you need an amp, you would still have a bit of money left over for something like a Schiit Magni.

 

[-Axle-]

But I agree with blueangel. HE-400s are fairly insensitive and a bit difficult to drive as a result. However, a receiver generally has decent headphone amplifier power. Probably not to worry with those. Can't say the same for your computer. Too difficult to predict.

 
I'm not trying to challenge (since I'm not that knowledgeable), but they're 35ohm and 92.5dB, isn't that really easy to drive?
 
This was a big part of the reason I was considering the HE-400 initially.

 

[cel4145]

:mad:
You're right but I don't have to like it.

Why mad? I was serious, though. I haven't heard the RC-70s, but as an owner of the RC-50s who read everything he can on the RC-70s, I do think that going from the best $50-$60 headphones to the best $200-$300 headphones is definitely at least that kind of jump in class from the entry level Polk towers to the RC-70s.

One advantage of open headphones like the HE-400: when listening at moderate volumes, you could still hear the kids yelling once they get a little older. Or perhaps that's a disadvantage

And I do agree with blueangel that the HE-400s are a fantastic value right now. They really do sound awesome

 

[-Axle-]

Why mad? I was serious, though. I haven't heard the RC-70s, but as an owner of the RC-50s who read everything he can on the RC-70s, I do think that going from the best $50-$60 headphones to the best $200-$300 headphones is definitely at least that kind of jump in class from the entry level Polk towers to the RC-70s.

 
LOL, I meant it jokingly.  As in, I would've rathered an easier (read cheaper) answer.
 

And I do agree with blueangel that the HE-400s are a fantastic value right now. They really do sound awesome 

 

I'm THIS close to ordering, especially since they have a return policy.

 

[cel4145]

LOL, I meant it jokingly.  As in, I would've rathered an easier (read cheaper) answer.

I'm THIS close to ordering, especially since they have a return policy.

I have two monster CHT 18" subwoofers in my living room HT setup with a separate amp that put out amazing bass. The HE-400s can do that. The bass response is incredibly clean and textured--as good as a $1500 to $2000 subwoofer from BestBuy. Detail resolution on the mids will definitely equal or exceed the RC-70s, IMO. I think you'll enjoy hearing them.