[SilverEars]

I tried the parametric EQ settings for Oratory with my HD800S and it was terrible. The problem with Oratory it doesn't take into account the system and conditions used for taking the measurements. If you have different pads on a ZMF headphone, for example, the EQ settings are wrong. You are much better off trying several of the presets based on various conditions and see which one works best for you. Frequency response curve changes with pads with cables with sources with amps, etc.

Also, the Harman curve is a broad average of consumer preferences. Hardly any of us are exactly at the mean. The better approach is to listen to 10-20 different headphones, see which one you like and then tune your current headphones to the frequency response of those headphones. I would rather tune my headphones to the Ananda than the Harman curve.

Lastly, if you just take any headphone and tune it to the Harman curve, you lose the tuning intended by the developers for that product. The ZMF headphones, as an example, have a house sound with a somewhat funky looking FR curve. I took mine and tuned it to a harman curve and it sounded almost exactly like my HD800S which small differences in certain things like bass timbre. I A/B tested my harman tuning to the ZMF tuning on my amps and I much preferred Zachs tuning. Tuning also needs to take into account physical limitations of the headphones. You can't tune anything to anything else.

If you are just going to get a technically strong headphone and tune it to Harman, you only need one pair of headphones. That's like having only one flavor of ice cream. That's boring. I think the best method of EQ is what Chrono does from Headphones.com. He takes his personal experience with his own preference curves, listens to the headphones, looks at the FR curve and makes small adjustments to make it adhere more closely to his preferences without losing the primary intentions of the headphones.

If all you were going to do was take a pair of headphones and tune it to Harman, you should have bought the Ananda's. They are much better tuned. The Arya requires tuning, but by a person who knows their preferences to tweak the sound appropriately.

When I EQ'd HD800 to a preset based on a target curve, all the technicalities of 800 was gone and sounded very avg. So excessive EQ isn't something I like. It's ok for minor fixes, but physical mods work much better.

If it was easy as EQ a headphone to target ghen what's the point of all these headphones?

Issue with EQ is that it's being done in the software, and real EQ should be done on the transducer.

EQ to Harman Target will not make any headphone the best headphone in the world. If it was the case then we should already have a dirt cheap endgame headphone with EQ applied.

 

[askkshly]

I'd recommend an Arya!

 

[sml238]

does anyone know if it's normal forthe yokes, where they connect to the headband on the Arya, are supposed to be sort of crooked? If you look at where the top of the yoke it has a like a PTFE top on it where it meets and rotates around the flat piece on the headband. It's crooked and tilted so there's a gap on the inside. it looks like i can see this on all other pictures to some extent. upon closer inspection of the build it's definitely not the best build in the world. they are light and very comfortable but the build just looks overly complex, like the idea was good but not enough time to simplify the idea, which takes a lot of engineering.

 

[Lolito]

Hi guys,

I'm feeling the urge to add another headphone to my collection. First let me state what I have so you can get a reference to what I know and then I can provide some insight as to what I may be looking for and the options I'm considering.

Sources:
- PC, MacBook Pro, M1 Mac Mini
- Topping D90 / A90 Stack
- 2x JDS Labs Element II's (one in living room, one in bedroom)
- Software: Audirvana (w/ Tidal and my own library), SoundSource 5 w/ fabfilter Pro Q EQ, Goodhertz Canopener crossfeed, Goodhertz Mid-Side Stereo Processing

Headphones:
- LCD-X (2021 Model) - love these all around especially after EQ)
- HD660s -love these for their mid clarity and slight forwardness, very clean sounding with an intimate presentation that is unmatched for vocal focused tracks
- DT1990 Pro - these are my sort of everyday cans for gaming and music, I think I like them most with the Dekoni Elite Velour pads, seems to add bass, and tame out the treble without any EQ
- LCD-2C - love their relaxed sound but I may sell these

2 Channel Setup:
- M1 Mac Mini
- minidsp SHD processor/preamp w/ Dirac Live and some REW work with the minidsp plugin
- Parasound A23+ Amp (160wpc)
- BJC Cable
- Rythmik G22 (2x 12" dual apposed sub)
- KEF LS50 Meta (w/ KEF S2 stands w/ inert filler)
- Misc - BDI Corridor console, some room treatment
etc

What am I looking for with my next set of cans?

Well nothing actually super-specific except that they need to be relatively close to some of the Harman curbes but not so close as I'm fine with EQ. But really they need some or multiple class-leading attributes. For example, soundstage/imaging with a good FR response, or dynamics with a good FR response, or state of the art detail with a good FR response and soundstage/imagine, something of that nature.

The headphones I'm considering and the partial reasons why are below. Anyone who has experience with these headphones and can take the info from above and give me a recommendation would be greatly appreciated.

- Hifiman Arya - I hear these have a very nice soundstage and a grand sound with a very good FR response and good detail to boot. Only downside may be they lack some dynamics and intimacy which the intimacy part obviously is a result of the soundstage so I realize you can't have it all. These seem to be comfortable with an OK build.

- Focal Clear - These seem to have a very nice FR response with also very good detail similar to the Arya (both maybe just 1 notch below state of the art), but I hear these also have excellent dynamics and are just solid overall with a good build and good comfort.

- Verite - These seem to be a really good all-around headphone with good FR, decent soundstage, very good dynamics, comfortable, gorgeously built etc. These would appear to be sort of the jack of all trades master of none but still very close to hitting state of the art across the board just a notch down. But they are also a bit more than I want to spend. Ideally, I'd prefer to spend around $1500 but if it's worth it, I may splurge.

- HD800s - Well we all know these have state of the art soundstage/imaging, and detail. But they can be a little anemic and still a little peaky and fatiguing in the treble. Would be nice to own but I'm not sure if even EQ will get me close enough to the amount of low distortion sub-bass I'm looking for. Maybe?

that's a proper 2 channels speaker system, ls50 + 2x 122 rythmik subs

any pics???? ;-D

 

[dan3952]

that's a proper 2 channels speaker system, ls50 + 2x 122 rythmik subs

any pics???? ;-D

I had gone from Focal Clears to HiFiMan Aryas to Audeze LCD-3s and now I have none of those.

Arya:
- nowhere near as dynamic as any Audeze, it's a "soft touch" headphone (play anything that has a kick drum to check this)
- excellent soundstage and imaging, more tall than it is wide, I could hear sounds above me and behind me
- diffuse sound field (less energy spread out over a wide area), some feel this is bested only by the HE-1000 or HD800 and think it sounds unnatural
- timbre is slightly off, female vocals in particular had sounded hollow and plastic, not as organic as Audeze or Sennheiser HD660; hadn't noticed so much with electronic music or guitars
- resolution is better than the LCD-X and LCD-3, and about the same as the Clears (Reveal+ plugin, hadn't improved the resolution for me, just made the dark band louder and Audeze knows where that is)
- more detail in the bass than the LCD-X or LCD-3, heard as texture in bass guitar tracks
- somewhat warm, but not as warm as LCD-3
- largely flat FR, you can EQ it to match the Harman curve
- not as dark as an Audeze, not as lively as a Focal
- in all, a good value for about $1500

Clear:
- dynamics and impact halfway between an Audeze and an Arya or an HE-1000
- though not as weightless as the Arya, closed back headphones would tend to give you fuller bass, these are in the middle
- "ball cap" soundstage average for the price, better than cheap Sennheisers but not as good as Arya or HE-1000 or HD800, about the same as LCD-X or LCD-3
- cold, metallic timbre in upper midrange particularly fatiguing when listening to percussion heavy music
- very good resolution (it takes headphones that sell for over $2000 to beat them), heard as small details in voices, and texture in stringed instruments, more than LCD-X or LCD-3
- not warm and lush like LCD-3
- largely flat FR, you can EQ it to match the Harman curve
- not as much air in the treble as some others
- the lively one out of the headphones I've had (like my Martin Logan 60XT speakers which also have aluminum drivers); these smack you in the forehead with detail and I had turned them down a lot, the opposite problem with the LCD-3s
- has a resonant peak at 70 Hz or so, showing on Tyll Hertsens graph, that planar headphones lack (high Z sound might be noticeable if you are playing music that had a lot of information there, or else you could try test tones to check it out)
- construction better than any HifiMan headphone
- in all, a good value for about $1500

I would get the Verites if I wanted to spend that much.

I keep going back to my speakers for the soundstage and imaging, resolution is as good as Clears or Aryas, it would take the LCD-4s or Utopias to out-resolve them. Bass cleaner with most headphones due to lack of crossover with subwoofer, and lack of room effects. Using IEMs now at night as I live in an apartment.

 

[kadinh]

Out of the cans you posted, I have owned the Arya (sent them back after 3-4 weeks, couldn't get over the "cheap" feeling quality, sounded just ok) and the 800S (still have these, use them 95% for gaming for soundstage and imaging, not very exciting to listen to the genres of music I listen to). Have not heard the Clears but they seem to have a more energetic sound than the Arya and HD800S for music.

That being said, there are so many recommendations for the ZMF VCs that they 100% be my next purchase.

 

[PointyFox]

FWIW I heard the VC and VO side by side and thought the VO was better overall since it was more open sounding; but if you need closed, the VC is up there with the best like the Z1R, HD820, and Eikon. Hmm.. there really aren't that many good closed-backs on the market..

The "OG" Clear is definitely more energetic sounding than the 800S and Arya. Not sure about the MG version.

 

[LongBeforeShort]

I have heard a bunch of different headphones with the same source, dac, amp and songs and found the verite open with 2 different pads to be the best sounding of them all and i like the audeze LCD-2 as reference because the high frequency was not hurting (i listen at a volume around 80-90dbA peak). The verite managed to be precise and detailed, while being gentle at the same time.

Not going into details, because @dan3952 did a pretty good job on that, i agree with him on many but not all points.

 

[kadinh]

there really aren't that many good closed-backs on the market

That is so true, that is why the VC is at the top of my list. The Z1R would be the 2nd.