Help! Just got HD650s
Aug 25, 2007 at 10:20 PM Post #106 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by fc911c /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What amp and what mods?


read this:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...hlight=modding

Loads of pics of the components used most all high end or custom made.
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Aug 25, 2007 at 10:30 PM Post #107 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That may make a difference when transmitting a high-power electric current, but something as weak as an audio signal? Somehow, I don't think so.


it's exactly the other way around. Since 2.0 volts is so low, every loss is not wanted. If you have 100.000 volts and you loose 5% it's peanuts, but if you loose 5% of 2.0 volts it's in comparisson quite alot!

So, for signal cable you want the best cables possible.

100.000- 500= 95000 volts.
2 volts- 0,1= 1,9 volts, wich might be a loss of 2-3 db.

good cables always sound harder then bad cables, it sounds like they block the signal. With good cable i have to turn the pot down a bit.

This is the same princaple they use with your powersupplier: instead of 230/115 volts they send 100.000 volts through the cables, so any loss in transport in considdered peanuts to the amount of volts left. But you would in % much more if you just transported 230/115 over the wires. This way power transport is way more efficient.
 
Aug 25, 2007 at 10:32 PM Post #108 of 122
I'm surprised out of so many posts, no one has mentioned the Sennheiser 2-blob effect of the sound stage, which has good width on both sides, but to me, has almost no depth, and tends to make the cups sound very distinct (like the music on one cup is disconnected from the other cup). I personally do not like this at all, and despite the various positives that I can attribute to the Sennheiser sound, soundstage to me is NOT one of them.
 
Aug 25, 2007 at 10:38 PM Post #109 of 122
It is going to be like that with every headphone that doesn't have some kind of built-in crossfeed.
 
Aug 25, 2007 at 10:43 PM Post #111 of 122
tourmaline, with all due respect, do you mean voltage or current? Are you saying that if you run 2 volts into a stock Sennheiser cable you will somehow measure 1.9 volts at the other end? And with a Zu Mobius cable of the same length, the voltage will be closer to 2.0 volts? Please explain how this can happen and where "the missing volts" went!
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Aug 25, 2007 at 11:11 PM Post #112 of 122
Aug 25, 2007 at 11:49 PM Post #113 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarinthegourd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Cyrilix, see my first post on this thread. Compared to my Grados, I feel like the Sennheiser soundstage is almost completely between my two ears rather than out in front of me somewhere. As good as the SQ is, that's my biggest complaint about these phones.


Yep, same here. That's why I'm looking at hearing an AKG K701 for good detail and clarity, but a closer-to-DT880 soundstage without having the slight DT880 treble sharpness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek
It is going to be like that with every headphone that doesn't have some kind of built-in crossfeed.


No, in my experience, this is quite simply not true. They may all have this certain characteristic to an extent, but with the Sennheiser phones, it is much more apparent.
 
Aug 26, 2007 at 12:33 AM Post #114 of 122
Perhaps to you, certainly not to everyone.
 
Aug 26, 2007 at 12:36 AM Post #115 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarinthegourd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
tourmaline, with all due respect, do you mean voltage or current? Are you saying that if you run 2 volts into a stock Sennheiser cable you will somehow measure 1.9 volts at the other end? And with a Zu Mobius cable of the same length, the voltage will be closer to 2.0 volts? Please explain how this can happen and where "the missing volts" went!
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resistance and resistance is dissapated as heat. Means lost!

Output of any modern cdplayer is between 2 and 2,5 volts.
 
Aug 26, 2007 at 12:58 AM Post #116 of 122
tourmaline, I don't think you understand what voltage means.

To use an analogy, if you have a water pipe that is fat at one end and thin at the other, and there is a lot of pressure at the fat end, the flow at the thin end will be lower than it would be if it were fat through its whole length. This is analagous to current (reisistance or impedance is analagous to pipe thickness, which regulates current/flow). But the water pressure will be the same at both ends. This is analagous to voltage. If you want to reduce voltage, you need to short the circuit somehow. In the analogy above, this would be like adding a joint to the pipe where you are diverting some of the water elsewhere.

I will be fascinated to hear how the voltage at the end of a Zu cable is different than the voltage at the end of a Senn cable.

Empirical measurements, or theoretical explanation backed by equations and a demonstrated understanding of terms, math, and physics, please.
 
Aug 26, 2007 at 1:19 AM Post #117 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarinthegourd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
tourmaline, I don't think you understand what voltage means.

To use an analogy, if you have a water pipe that is fat at one end and thin at the other, and there is a lot of pressure at the fat end, the flow at the thin end will be lower than it would be if it were fat through its whole length. This is analagous to current (reisistance or impedance is analagous to pipe thickness, which regulates current/flow). But the water pressure will be the same at both ends. This is analagous to voltage. If you want to reduce voltage, you need to short the circuit somehow. In the analogy above, this would be like adding a joint to the pipe where you are diverting some of the water elsewhere.

I will be fascinated to hear how the voltage at the end of a Zu cable is different than the voltage at the end of a Senn cable.

Empirical measurements, or theoretical explanation backed by equations and a demonstrated understanding of terms, math, and physics, please.



I didn't say that anywhere. I only stated that cables differ in sound. And at the end, you use a plug, some plugs have more resistance then others, if you take these into the equation, yes some will have slightly higher voltage then others at the end of the line. Simple as that. You don't nead rocket science for that. Also, some cables have better frequncy responce, at the end, more frequencies come trough unharmed. This is partly due to the core used. I allready posted in several threads about the ultra high pure copper and silver cores. Expensive to make, but better in sound. they use a special crystal structure, wich is much more pure.

Why don't you explain it to me with Empirical measurements, or theoretical explanation backed by equations and a demonstrated understanding of terms, math, and physics nothing is happening in a cable.
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"Voltage is a property of an electric field, not individual electrons. An electron moving across a voltage difference experiences a net change in energy, often measured in electron-volts. This effect is analogous to a mass falling through a given height difference in a gravitational field.

When using the term 'potential difference' or voltage, one must be clear about the two points between which the voltage is specified or measured. There are two ways in which the term is used. This can lead to some confusion."

"Voltage is a property of an electric field, not individual electrons. An electron moving across a voltage difference experiences a net change in energy, often measured in electron-volts. This effect is analogous to a mass falling through a given height difference in a gravitational field.

"Voltage with respect to a common point"
One way in which the term voltage is used is when specifying the voltage of a point in a circuit. When this is done, it is understood that the voltage is usually being specified or measured with respect to a stable and unchanging point in the circuit that is known as ground or common. This voltage is really a voltage difference, one of the two points being the reference point, which is ground. A voltage can be positive or negative. "High" or "low" voltage may refer to the magnitude (the absolute value relative to the reference point). Thus, a large negative voltage may be referred to as a high voltage. Other authors may refer to a voltage that is more negative as being "lower."

I just measured two of the same outlets: one was 227,3 and the other was 228 volts. It should be 230 volts, so somewhere i lost a few volts on the way to me and they are certainly not exactly the same, as you stated!
So, apperently theory is not the same as practise.
 
Aug 26, 2007 at 1:29 AM Post #118 of 122
Quote:

at the end, you use a plug, some plugs have more resistance then others, if you take these into the equation, yes some will have slightly higher voltage then others at the end of the line. Simple as that. You don't nead rocket science for that


No, you certainly don't need rocket science.

But high school physics will teach you that adding resistance to a circuit in series does not change the voltage in the circuit. Adding it in parallel, yes, but if that's what you are arguing, then you are saying that current is somehow passing through the insulators in the Senn cable, getting over to the other wire, and returning to the amp without having reached the headphone. Yes, this would cause a drop in voltage. But it's also basically impossible given the wire size, insulator type and distance between the pairs. And it has nothing to do with resistance.

Like you said, it's not rocket science.
 
Aug 26, 2007 at 1:34 AM Post #119 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by fc911c /img/forum/go_quote.gif
well no problem at all really, but your way might be better for getting the nylon tighter. I will give it a try.

Frank



Great! Interested to hear how it goes; a part of me thinks that there should be a difference since tighter nylon is more in line with the straight sides of the foam. and everything the air passes through to get to your ears affects the sound, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Goodness... not again.

There are believers, and nonbelievers. Both are right, within their own experiences.

I personally have owned or tried most aftermakket cables, and personally prefer the silver alloy cables, which have about 25% silver with the balance OFC (not sure how exact that is when making alloy), but it is all preference - and budget does often determine how much difference one is able to hear.

One absolute truth here is that there never will be a resolution to 'best cable for Senns', but Sennheiser should take note of all the threads back and forth over the years that MAYBE they can address in their new offering(s)?

Just a thought that a company this savvy might pay attention to the goldmine of customer feedback that Head-fi provides. Obviously, they do not prescribe to Pragmatic Marketing - maybe it is a Teutonic thing?



Point well made!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarinthegourd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
To get the most from your power cables, you should upgrade to solid gold circuit breakers and run silver-plated 36"-diameter suspension bridge cables directly from your electrical panel to the power generating station next door (an unsightly neighbor but these are the sacrifices we make for ultimate audio quality).

Oh, and are you still plugging power cables into cheap Home Depot wall receptacles? Some prefer to upgrade to cryogenically treated titanium receptacles, but really, hardwiring your monoblocks directly to the circuit breaker in your basement is the only way to go. Preferable a 1-metre run or less, which pretty much requires that your hifi set be located in the basement near your panel.

Anyone want to come over to my basement and listen? I'm right next door to the nuclear plant, shouldn't be too hard to find.

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I've got the same setup, except my house is shielded and my listening rooms are in the subbasement. We should fly back and forth to compare. No, seriously.
 
Aug 26, 2007 at 4:33 AM Post #120 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarinthegourd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I wonder if any of the cable merchants let you audition the cables for a few days to see if you hear a difference?


Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarinthegourd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Anyone know if Zu and others allow a trial period with full refund? My mind and ears are open...


Can't speak for all, but Equinox (and I'm sure others) gives you a 30 day return policy if you don't hear the difference. Bottom line, if you're happy with it, the cable is worth the money.
 

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