[Kouzelna]

Hi!

My first post. Sorry about the length! And yes, my wallet is killing me!

In 2004 (I think) I bought the Grace 901 and Etymotic ER-4P (with S cable) and Sennheiser HD650 from HeadRoom when I lived overseas. If I recall, I had them ship it all to me in the Czech Republic. I ran it all from a high-end Yamaha Natural Sound Receiver and (ditto) CD w/ preamp out (effects bypass) and/or optical out (respectively) to the Grace.

(In the past, I also had a Wheatfield HA-2 from Peter Millet. Loved it).

I loved the HD650 but that "veil" is the real deal, IMHO, and even with the Grace it just never "got up and grooved" so to speak. It was an upgrade to my previous HD595 and HD600, respectively, so I had high hopes for it.

The Grace itself was un - be - liev - a - ble. But, it mainly just pointed out how crappy my source materials were, (and they all were according to the Grace's perfect expectations), so in the end I got rid of it.

Funny way of solving a problem, I know, but so be it.

Years later and I still have the ER-4P/S. It's awesome. But I need something for home that I don't have to drag out of my ears everytime the phone rings or I need to get up and get a cold drink from the fridge. I listen primarily these days, if I'm at home, through my iMac. And I recently bought a NuForce Icon Mobile, while a friend is mailing me his Total Airhead, to compare. (Wanted the Total Bithead, but just coudn't afford it so settled for the NuForce).

I picked up the Audio Technica M50S and love it. Awesome fit, awesome build quality, bitchen seal and sound isolation which is important to me, and great sound. Totally rockin' solid bass. But it can use some improvement. The bass as everyone knows is a bit muddy into the midrange, the soundstage is too compressed, and the highs are a bit tinny.

After a ton of HeadRoom and HeadFi research, I bought the Beyerdynamic DT880 and Denon D5000.

The DT880 had awesome soundstage and lovely instrument separation, with nice, deep, tight bass. But the highs were way, way too shrill for me.

The D5000, which I listen to now as I write, has a smooth "tubey" sound I like with all the great stuff of the DT880, but, has very muddy bass which bleeds into the midrange - just like the M50. Plus, the seal and fit suck. If I lay down they basically fall off, and I listen a lot in bed.

(Haven't noticed much of a difference with the NuForce. Some warmer fuller sound, more separation and soundstage, but you really have to listen A/B carefully to really notice).

Long story short, I don't like any of them!

If I could pick the perfect headphone.... It would be the fit, isolation and sound style of the M50. BUT, with tighter bass, and higher quality highs, separation and soundstage. Also the instruments would sound more realistic, like that of both the D5000 and the DT880.

Can you help? Does Audio Technica (or anyone else) make a high end unit that fits the bill here??? Without forcing me to sell a kidney to afford it?

AHHHHHGGGG!!!

P.S. I listen to European metal mostly (Theater of Tragedy, The Gathering, Sirenia etc), Prog, and other goodies. But in headphones while at home, mostly I listen to classical and high-quality Vocal Trance. That is, very expansive, well-recorded Trance music with female vocals. Ex. Dash Berlin, Sunlounger & Zara, DJ Shah, Armin van Buuren, etc).

 

[Lando3000]

I'm in the exact same boat as you are, I have the M50 and would like a headphone that is stepped up a notch from it. I've been researching and have narrowed it down to the Ultrasone 780 and Ultrasone 900 (a pretty big price differential between these two but it seems like these are the Ultrasones with the most/best bass). Maybe these could be an option for you as well.

 

[Ypoknons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lando3000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm in the exact same boat as you are, I have the M50 and would like a headphone that is stepped up a notch from it. I've been researching and have narrowed it down to the Ultrasone 780 and Ultrasone 900 (a pretty big price differential between these two but it seems like these are the Ultrasones with the most/best bass). Maybe these could be an option for you as well.

What's your setup buddy? The Ultrasone 900's I auditioned sounded great ... out of a Rega Apollo (or a Saturn, not sure) -> stagedac -> symphony.2 setup -_- ... About the same money as Kouzelna's Grace 901. They were quite horrible out of a Denon CD player, the D5000's I now own did alright.

Kouzelna - no personal experience here, but try Audio Technica's high end closed cans, W1000X, W5000, A1000X, A2000X etc... I doubt isolation would be as good as a M50. ESW10JPN might also fit the bill, it's a sealed AT with detailed bass, but they're limited so find one quick else even selling a kidney won't help. Might want a pair of home amp for low-impedance phones as well.

 

[stang]

DT880's highs too shrill? I find the DT880 600ohm driven from a MAD Ear+ HD amp to be quite dark. They are pretty darn bassy (over whole spectrum) and the high's are in no way shrill/bright

 

[Lando3000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ypoknons /img/forum/go_quote.gif What's your setup buddy? The Ultrasone 900's I auditioned sounded great ... out of a Rega Apollo -> stagedac -> symphony.2 setup. About the same money as Kouzelna's Grace 901. -_- They were quite horrible out of a Denon CD player, the D5000's I owned did fine.

Just a uDAC for now with the M50. Planning on an amp upgrade in the near future.

 

[Ypoknons]

Alternatively, look into getting D5000 modded into MD5000 if you still have them.

 

[Kouzelna]

I thought of getting the D5000 modded. But as I understand from Markl's post on that, it tighten's up the bass mostly. Which sounds great! Except that I really could not stand the recessed mids of the D5000. To my ears at least, it made the beautiful female vocals of the music I listen to most (female-led metal, vocal trance) practically disappear into the woodwork. Instead of being intimate and personal (try Veruca Salt's Resolver CD for the ultimate example - you can hear every breath). Anyway, for $400 give or take, I simply wanted to like the headphones better, before I then paid for upgrades.

I love the sound of the M50s. If I could just find a unit that has this similar sound signature, but tightens the bass and increases the soundstage, it'd be the perfect match. (I assume any higher quality can would automatically increase the quality of the highs. M50 has great highs, but just a tad tinny, which my guess is simply due to their low cost).

I don't know anything about Ultrasones. But I'll check 'em out. Thanks for the tip.

As for the higher end AT models, I am checking out a friend's A950 next week, the special edition of the A900. The A900 is another candidate I thought of to replace my M50. I'm also getting a Pro700 in the mail. Will check those too. As for higher end, with my sources and MP3 library, there's no point paying over $400 for cans. All they tend to do, like my wonderful Grace, is point out just how bad my sources are! But that's what happens when you're broke and always traveling.

 

[Kouzelna]

---> U P D A T E <---

Boy, the Ultrasone's just weren't it. The soundstage was indeed fantastic. WOW! I like the S-Logic a lot. But the quality of the lower-end model I got (DJ-1) was inferior. The M50 melted it.

So, I'd love to try Ultrasone's higher quality models, perhaps the 780 or better, the 750. They just get real expensive, real quick. And there's not a lot of used ones for sale.

As for the AT Pro700, I didn’t like it at all. It is entirely different than the M50. You can read my post about that here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ath...vs-m50-420475/

You know, repeatedly I get back to the sound quality of the DT880. Nothing has come close to it. The clarity and separation of each instrument is unreal. Similar to the HD650 but without that "veil." If it just weren't lacking so much in bass, and so shrill in the highs. My guess is with a higher quality amp it would be improved, but maybe not enough.

I look forward to the AT A950 getting here, should be tomorrow. I talked with Mike at HeadRoom for an hour, and it seems we share exactly the same taste in sound signature. And he said the bottom line for me is the Denon D2000. He said the best way to describe it is an "improved M50" which as you know is exactly what I wanted.

Will keep you updated on my search, and I really welcome new posts on this. Thanks.

 

[Kouzelna]

Found it!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/wha...ml#post6519603

 

[fjrabon]

So you liked the D2000 way more than the D5000?

 

[Kouzelna]

No contest.

I could see how the D5000 has tons of potential: it has a pure, tube-like, quality sound with precision detail that even outdid the DT 880, as did it's soundstage. That is no mean feat! The DT 880 is no slouch. So if Mark can bring the D5000 up to it's real potential through a mod, then it would be truly awesome.

But stock, the D5000 was fat, bloated, and the midrange pretty much disappeared. The stock D2000 is a crystal clear, precise, quality headphone. Absolutely everything in it, to me at least, was balanced and simply sounded beautiful. I could not find a single flaw in it's sound at all, on first listen. And that was out of a Total Airhead with a Nano as my source. I could only imagine it with a more powerful amp and CD source.

Compared to other mid-end cans like the DT 880 and ATH-A950 Ltd, there simply was no contest at all - no question. The differences was apparent in the first 3 seconds of comparison.

 

[fjrabon]

Wonder what causes such a stark difference, as the D2000 and D5000 have identical drivers and "innards". The main difference is that the D5000 has wood cups and a supposedly better cable.

Mark has said that a markl d2000 and a markl d5000 are completely identical. Not just that they sound identical, but they are exactly identical as he changes all the parts that make them different.

 

[Kouzelna]

No kidding? I was asking Mark about that a few days ago. He said the D5000's cable and cups were an improvement, and so the best deal was to start with a stock D5000 and do the basic mod. To upgrade from the D2000 meant changing the cable, the cups, and performing the mod. Interesting that they turn out the same.

I love the D2000 just how it is. In a perfect world, I'd have a wider soundstage (it's already great) and more imaging effect - the A950 really surrounds you with the instruments and effects. So I asked Mark if the mod helps that, and await his reply.

 

[fjrabon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kouzelna /img/forum/go_quote.gif No kidding? I was asking Mark about that a few days ago. He said the D5000's cable and cups were an improvement, and so the best deal was to start with a stock D5000 and do the basic mod. To upgrade from the D2000 meant changing the cable, the cups, and performing the mod. Interesting that they turn out the same. I love the D2000 just how it is. In a perfect world, I'd have a wider soundstage (it's already great) and more imaging effect - the A950 really surrounds you with the instruments and effects. So I asked Mark if the mod helps that, and await his reply.

It kind of depends. If you want a full MarkL mod, its actually cheaper to buy the D2000: From his webiste:

"The Denon AH-D5000 is identical to the AH-D2000, but dressed up with wooden cups and a nicer stock cable. Everything else is the same, including the all-critical driver. If you plan on having us re-cable your Denon, or add our custom wood cups, you have just spent $200 extra dollars on components that will be discarded by us anyway when we do the mods. For $200 less, just get the D2000 and send that to us. The D5000 has one chief purpose in our product line, and that is to make what is arguably our highest-value headphone, called the “MD5000”. This phone consists of the D5000 with our basic markl Mod. With its stock wooden cups and improved cable, combined with our powerful markl Mod, the MD5000 is several steps ahead of our modified D2000 (“MD2000”) in terms of providing a pleasing musical package. Though the D5000’s wooden cups are preferable to the plastic ones on the D2000, they have neither the beauty, nor enhanced soundstaging characteristics of our superior Custom Wood Cups. Because each of the woods we use has a slightly different tone, we can also tailor the wood selected for your custom cups to match your own musical preferences. "

 

[Kouzelna]

Oh, perfect! Thanks, I was a bit confused about that.

So the obvious thing is to send in a pair of D2000s and ask Mark to mod it, install custom ear cups and pads, and we're good to go. Now, if only there's place I can sell some body parts real quick....