[adhoc]

That is a decent price, especially considering how the TD-160 basically looks MINT.

Ask the seller regarding motor noise and belt slippage. Also ask the seller to remove the platter and look at the motor spindle as it spins - is there ANY WOBBLE due to the spindle not being perfectly straight? Ask the seller torun a fingernail along the exposed centre spindle - can he feel any "ridges" or areas of roughness?

If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, pass.

If not, well then... Wow. I'd advise you try to get the Technics for a low-ish price (snipe it) and if that doesn't work out plump for the Thorens.

For a real cheap phono stage, you could try the Hagerman Bugle as recommended or perhaps try a secondhand Cambridge Azur 640P. Parasound has a decent entry-level phono for $150 new IIRC. Or what about the Pro-Ject tubebox? All good quality phono stages for not much $$$.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetAdeline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was thinking about that TD160, just wasn't sure how much it is really worth. Is that a decent price? Just a quick scan through ebay pulled up a couple other interesting ones... http://cgi.ebay.com/TECHNICS-1200-MK...QQcmdZViewItem and http://cgi.ebay.com/Dual-1219-Turnta...QQcmdZViewItem I'm still considering everything basically, so everyone please feel free to try and persuade me.

That Technics looks like it's seen a lot of action. Look at the part where the finish is worn around the start button. I'd say the tonearm is probably buggered as that's the first thing to go on these. Even though they do go on and on I'd pass on that particular example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc Consider the "upgradability" of the Technics. Aside from the mods done by KABusa, I can't see much else you can do with the TT. This may likely ruffle a few feathers, but I'm with The Vinyl Anachronist on this one - the people who keep pushing the SL1200 have rarely, if ever heard anything "better"; this is not saying though, that the SL1200 isn't a good TT for the price.

Generally though the Technics do offer an upgrade path via the http://www.originlive.com/ modification which basically means switching the arm for a Rega RB250, which itself allows upgrades into near superarm territory. So you can gradually improve the Technics as funds allow. This elevates the Technics way beyond what almost any of the Rega decks are capable of.

The Thorens TD150/160 decks offer a similar scope for upgradability with everything being replaceable apart from the main bearing which is the best part. But the cost of adding so much aftermarket stuff can get quite high once you get into motor and powersupply upgrades so I personally would go for a TD125/TD126 as they are much better specified decks to start with.

 

[SweetAdeline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is a decent price, especially considering how the TD-160 basically looks MINT. Ask the seller regarding motor noise and belt slippage. Also ask the seller to remove the platter and look at the motor spindle as it spins - is there ANY WOBBLE due to the spindle not being perfectly straight? Ask the seller torun a fingernail along the exposed centre spindle - can he feel any "ridges" or areas of roughness? If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, pass. If not, well then... Wow. I'd advise you try to get the Technics for a low-ish price (snipe it) and if that doesn't work out plump for the Thorens. For a real cheap phono stage, you could try the Hagerman Bugle as recommended or perhaps try a secondhand Cambridge Azur 640P. Parasound has a decent entry-level phono for $150 new IIRC. Or what about the Pro-Ject tubebox? All good quality phono stages for not much $$$.

I went ahead and sent those questions to the seller, thanks for the advice. Hopefully those answers are all no.

 

[SweetAdeline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif That Technics looks like it's seen a lot of action. Look at the part where the finish is worn around the start button. I'd say the tonearm is probably buggered as that's the first thing to go on these. Even though they do go on and on I'd pass on that particular example. Generally though the Technics do offer an upgrade path via the http://www.originlive.com/ modification which basically means switching the arm for a Rega RB250, which itself allows upgrades into near superarm territory. So you can gradually improve the Technics as funds allow. This elevates the Technics way beyond what almost any of the Rega decks are capable of. The Thorens TD150/160 decks offer a similar scope for upgradability with everything being replaceable apart from the main bearing which is the best part. But the cost of adding so much aftermarket stuff can get quite high once you get into motor and powersupply upgrades so I personally would go for a TD125/TD126 as they are much better specified decks to start with.

Good stuff to know, thanks so much. See, where would I be without you guys?

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Exactly right. I have no idea why the 3009 is so well regarded - I have listened to the series 2 and series 2 improved and they are both beaten soundly by the RB300. The 3012 is another matter though... The caps may need to be replaced, but almost certainly not the bearings. I say this from personal experience, having auditioned a TD150, TD166 and having owned briefly a TD160, then TD125. Consider the "upgradability" of the Technics. Aside from the mods done by KABusa, I can't see much else you can do with the TT. This may likely ruffle a few feathers, but I'm with The Vinyl Anachronist on this one - the people who keep pushing the SL1200 have rarely, if ever heard anything "better"; this is not saying though, that the SL1200 isn't a good TT for the price.

The Technics SL1200 has sold in the millions and is common as dirt.Because of this and the fact you can still buy a new one,it really doesn't get much respect from the Hifi community.Before I attached a KABUSA power supply and mounted an Origin Live Silver tonearm,I too was skeptical about the potential sound quality of this turntable.It could be you have never heard anything better.

 

[adhoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssportclay /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Technics SL1200 has sold in the millions and is common as dirt.Because of this and the fact you can still buy a new one,it really doesn't get much respect from the Hifi community.Before I attached a KABUSA power supply and mounted an Origin Live Silver tonearm,I too was skeptical about the potential sound quality of this turntable.It could be you have never heard anything better.

Somehow, I honestly doubt it. I'm not trying to be facetious here, but just honest. Read my profile.

Nonetheless, I hear you. I should at least give the SL1200 a fair shake before commenting on it. I apologise if I ruffled any feathers - I had the best intentions.

 

[adhoc]

SweetAdeline,

You might want to read this article. I feel it summarises nicely the strengths of the various Thorens models.

http://www.stefanopasini.it/images/Thor1215.pdf

AFAIK, the TD126 is often considered next to the TD125 - but I think it's actually a bit lower in overall quality than the TD160. A bold statement perhaps, but I stand by what I say, having auditioned them all and seen them in person. The fit, finish, everything - no comparison.

IMO: TD124mkII>TD124>>TD125mkI/II>TD160/TD150>>TD166/TD126

Of course, the price increases exponentially as you go up the list, so...

The TD160 is a fine deck IMO, and more than worthy of being anyone's first deck.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc /img/forum/go_quote.gif SweetAdeline, You might want to read this article. I feel it summarises nicely the strengths of the various Thorens models. http://www.stefanopasini.it/images/Thor1215.pdf AFAIK, the TD126 is often considered next to the TD125 - but I think it's actually a bit lower in overall quality than the TD160. A bold statement perhaps, but I stand by what I say, having auditioned them all and seen them in person. The fit, finish, everything - no comparison. IMO: TD124mkII>TD124>>TD125mkI/II>TD160/TD150>>TD166/TD126 Of course, the price increases exponentially as you go up the list, so... The TD160 is a fine deck IMO, and more than worthy of being anyone's first deck.

The Thorens TD126 has a bit of a tarnished reputation from the MKIII version only.Vinyl Nirvana actually rates the stock Thorens TD126MKII a little higher than the 2 stock TD125s.

 

[SweetAdeline]

This was the response I got from the seller on the questions I asked about that TD160-

"The turntable in excellent working and cosmetic condition, nothing wrong with it."

A bit unsettling to be honest. He didn't expand on anything, that was it. Oh well, I'm not in a big rush really.

That article on the Thorens models was really interesting. Lots of good insight in there. Thanks for posting that.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc /img/forum/go_quote.gif AFAIK, the TD126 is often considered next to the TD125 - but I think it's actually a bit lower in overall quality than the TD160. A bold statement perhaps, but I stand by what I say, having auditioned them all and seen them in person. The fit, finish, everything - no comparison. IMO: TD124mkII>TD124>>TD125mkI/II>TD160/TD150>>TD166/TD126 Of course, the price increases exponentially as you go up the list, so... The TD160 is a fine deck IMO, and more than worthy of being anyone's first deck.

I agree that the TD160 is quite special for what it is, but it's really not in the same league as the TD126 which cost as much as a Linn LP12 at the time.

As Ssportclay says they did monkey around with the TD126 a bit to try and get the specs to equal contemporary direct drives, by fitting servos which never really worked so well.

However you only have to pick a TD126 up to see what a quality piece of kit it is. It's almost identical to the TD125 in the bearing and top plate loosing out only in the extra automated stuff which makes it more difficult to upgrade.

A TD160S with a decent tonearm would I suppose outclass a stock TD126 but the basic TD160 MK1 or MKII or B/C 's would have a hard time without replinthing, they are just too lightweight even with a top notch tonearm.

I too have first hand knowlegde of these decks and have owned several of them.

I am quite jealous of your Garrard

but I don't think Ssportclay's souped-up Technics would aquit itself that badly against it if you mounted them both with the same arm and cart.

 

[adhoc]

Thank you ssportclay and memepool for your replies.

ssportclay, you may be right - the TD126 I tried out was indeed a mkIII, and had serious issues with speed stability. Perhaps the fascia did not appeal to me, but my experience with it was anything but positive.

Actually, come to think of it, I never really seen many TD126s around for sale. Anyone know why?

memepool, you are correct - the TD160 I had was a mkII, and no matter how I tried to soup it up, it still could not compare to a "stock" 1980s-era LP12 (pre-Cirkus, pre-Valhalla, Grace G707). I still maintain though that it is a very fine table for the money that is usually asked for it ($200-400), and will fit unobtrusively in any (vinyl) audiophile's setup.

 

[ronnielee54]

I think you should check out Musicdirect.com. They have some nice new tt's in your price range. The problem I have had with tt's on ebay is packaging by the shipper. A tt in a box filled with foam pellets is not good enough. I have seen tonearms not locked down , platters not secured, and even broken stylli. You can buy one from musicdirect setup and ready to go. They have some awsome gear to. Request their catalog if you want to do some serious drooling. I own some old Duals and a couple of B&O's and unless you can really get a used tt cheap, you are better off not go used, as I spent 100 extra bucks to get one of my Duals fixed that was in "excellent condition when last played" as reported by seller. Luckly I got it for about a fourth it's value so I am still happy. Do yourself a favor and listen to your freind. The Music Hall or even a Rega is a fine choice. Technics are okay if you want to dj. (imho) That seems to be a popular model with them so your tt could end having had some serious playing time. Buy new man unless it is really a bargain. Trust me as I have owned many tt's in my 52 years.

 

[trains are bad]

Here's another big technics fan. Not glamorous but Technics is 'the' record player.

 

[ronnielee54]

In the past I have always tried to steer away from bashing a particular piece of equipment, but I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to upgrade a 1200. It is described as a "Proffesional DJ Turntable". That is what it is. It is not, nor is it intended to be an "audiophile" turntable. It is desingned for heavy use in a club setting, which it is pretty damn good at.
I will say it again. Before you pull the trigger, check musicdirect.com. They sell turntables ranging from extreme audiophile to entry level. I still think you should listen to your freind. The Music Hall Turntable is a fine choice for a noob, and it is more worthy of an upgrade if you decide to make the big leap into vinyl. Also checkout the Pro-Ject Xpression II that comes with a Sumiko Oyster cartridge for 499.00 or the Pro-Ject Debut III with an Ortofon OM-5 MM cartridge for 299.00 black / 329.00 choice of color. They also have a large selection of new vinyl.
As I stated in an earlier post, BUY NEW. Sometimes you get a gem off ebay, and sometimes a dud. I have my old turntables for the sake of nostalgia. Technology hase definitely improved in turntables. Take advantage of it

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronnielee54 /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the past I have always tried to steer away from bashing a particular piece of equipment, but I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to upgrade a 1200. It is described as a "Proffesional DJ Turntable". That is what it is. It is not, nor is it intended to be an "audiophile" turntable.

Sorry but this is innacurate. The Technics SL1200/1210 was not designed as a "DJ Turntable" because outside of radio stations (who used EMT / Garrard / Thorens / Rek-O-Kut etc... ) there was no such thing.
This deck came out in the mid 1970s when actually disco DJ's were using decks like the Thorens TD125, see the other post.
Radio stations began to buy the Technics SP10 as it was cheaper than all the aforementioned but the SL1200 was designed as a mid-range Hi-Fi deck, available also as the SL120 usually fitted with an SME3009 tonearm. It's ruggedness which later made it ideal for the fledgling Hip Hop scene was just standard 1970s Japanese build quality.

The main shortcoming of the SL1200 in comparison to the decks you buy now is it's 1970's designed higher mass tonearm which makes cartridge matching a bit more difficult, but can easily be replaced with a slightly more recently designed one like the Rega RB250 (1983), which is the standard budget tonearm fitted on almost every sub 1000 USD deck today.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ronnielee54 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As I stated in an earlier post, BUY NEW. Sometimes you get a gem off ebay, and sometimes a dud. I have my old turntables for the sake of nostalgia. Technology hase definitely improved in turntables. Take advantage of it

The new decks you buy today for 500USD are no better than the entry level decks of the 1980s, which is in fact what many of them are. Look at the 'new' Dual CS505-4 which costs around 450 UKP ( Hate to think what it costs in USD). It isn't much different for the 1982 Dual CS-505-2 which cost 80UKP at the time. The same can be said for The Regas and Rega inspired decks like the Goldrings. The Pro-Ject/Music Hall decks are newer but not really any better designed than these.

The prices have gone up because Vinyl is de rigeur again and these are now "audiophile" products all of a sudden; they are part of a niche market. But the quality of the engineering is certainly no better.

Therefore it makes a lot of sense to buy 2nd hand if you don't mind learning a bit about turntables in the process of doing basic set up and servicing. For under 100 USD you can get great 1970's vintage decks which are every bit the sonic equal of these 500+USD so called "audiophile" decks if you arn't afraid to get your hands dirty. For 500USD on the 2nd hand market you can get something pretty special like the Thorens, AR or better quality Technics decks.

If you can afford a new deck then yes you'll save yourself plenty of fuss and bother and get to sit in a nice armchair with your dealer and compare decks.
This is by far the best way to buy Hi-Fi, but there is nothing wrong with the D.I.Y approach either, and it's certainly a lot cheaper.