[pensiero]

Hello! The post is long, feel free to skip to the HELP section down below.

The title is "click-bait", I know there is a huge difference (and price) between those headphones. Keep reading

Here you have an owner of Sennheiser HD598, that at some point listened to a pair of Bower&Wilkins P5 in a store and thought "what the hell is this, maybe I could listen to music in a better way".

Only after one year, I realized that actually the P5 looked really nice (compared to the HD598) because they were attached to a proper DAC and AMP, at the time I didn't even know what they are.

...

So, after months of reading reviews and watching videos, spending tons of hours in audio stores in NY and Berlin, here we are, with a bit more awareness of what's out there, still with lots of uncertainties. I know that I have a lot to learn.

I listened in audio stores to:
- Sennheiser (HD600, HD650, HD660S, HD800S)
- Hifiman (Ananda, Sundara, Arya)
- Meze (Classic 99, Empyrean)
- Beyerdynamic (DT990, DT1990, T1)
- Audeze (LCD-X, LCD-2, LCD-4)
- Grado (GS1000, RS1e)
- Focal (Clear, Utopia)
- Audioquest (Nighthawk)

and I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Sadly I didn't try any ZMF even if I read a lot of good things about them.

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---- HELP SECTION ----
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The goal is to upgrade the HD598; I listen to tons of Jazz, Classic, Instrumental, OST.

I started with a budget of max 500 EUR, and I landed on the HD660S. I'm sure you all have different opinions, I know this is a subjective topic.

HOWEVER at some point I listened to the Hifiman Ananda, and I fell in love with them. Ultra comfortable, gorgeous warm sound, tons of details. And then to the Arya. I spent 3 hours in an audio store just listening the Arya. I compared them with the HD800s (which I also like a lot), still the Arya just touched my soul in so many ways. HD800s are awesome, however I guess at some point I got bored about that level of detail and precision. Arya and Ananda sounded much more pleasant and exciting. Always IMHO, again I know this is subjective.

So you might think: ok he has the answer, he should buy the Arya. Where is the problem?
It would be a huge jump from the HD598 to the Arya, and I read a lot of people saying that the upgrade should be smooth, and so maybe I should buy a decent DAC/AMP and keep my HD598, then buy a pair of HD660S, and only after a while the Arya.

I don't have tons of money and I have to justify hard to myself a purchase of 1700 EUR (Arya), however I listen to music at least 2/3 hours per day (not for work, just for pleasure), and I think it might be worth that investment.

Ananda might be a good and cheaper alternative, however I heard the difference between those, and I'm not sure but I think that I should either stay cheap (with the HD660S) or really do the best investment (Arya).

What should I do? Grow gradually and save some money now, or head to the best? Am I really gonna appreciate and learn if I skip the intermediate steps?

Also, open to hearing from you alternatives to the HD660S or Arya, and for which reason.

Thank you, and thank you for reading this long post!

 

[spanyam]

It would be a huge jump from the HD598 to the Arya, and I read a lot of people saying that the upgrade should be smooth.

This really depends on what works for you and your habits. Are you someone who is prone to upgradeitis or wants to own a large collection?

If so, there is a lot of pleasure in the slow upgrade path. Otherwise, if you just want one thing you really enjoy using everyday without a second thought, and you're sure the Arya is the best for you at €1700, get the Arya.

 

[megabigeye]

Back at the dawn of time, when the iPhone first launched, it cost $500, which was about twice as expensive as high-end phones at the time. This was when US mobile carriers required a two year contract when purchasing a phone, including the iPhone. The catch, though, was that the iPhone's contract was significantly less expensive than other smartphones, so much so that over the course of a two year contract the iPhone ended up costing less than a Blackberry.
Back then, I had a cash poor friend that rrrreeeaaallllllyyy wanted an iPhone, but just couldn't justify the cost to himself. If he was smart he'd have either scrounged enough cash to purchase the iPhone or else held off altogether till he could afford it. But he didn't. Instead he got a Balckberry and, over two years, spent more than $250 more than he would have if he'd gotten the iPhone.
Needless to say, the two of us are no longer friends.

If you think about the cost of the headphones spread out over time, what you're asking is basically the same: should you spend €1700 on the Arya, or should you spend €2300 on the Arya?

I don't think the "jump" between the HD 598 and the Arya should be too much of a concern. In fact, I think that— because you can already tell a difference between the HD 660 S and the Arya and already know that you prefer the Arya— it's not a concern at all. If you were more uncertain about your preferences, I'd wholeheartedly recommend getting the cheaper headphones and enjoying them to the max. But it seems like a foregone conclusion that you'll end up purchasing the Arya whether or not you get the HD 660 S. So why not cut out the middle man?

My advice to you is the same as to my old friend: either scrape together enough money to buy them now, or save up for a bit until you can more comfortably afford them, but don't spend more money because you can't afford to spend less. That's just silly.

 

[pensiero]

This really depends on what works for you and your habits. Are you someone who is prone to upgradeitis or wants to own a large collection?

If so, there is a lot of pleasure in the slow upgrade path. Otherwise, if you just want one thing you really enjoy using everyday without a second thought, and you're sure the Arya is the best for you at €1700, get the Arya.

I guess it's hard for me to say at this stage if I'd own a large collection or not as I owed only a pair of good headphone so far (before the HD598 I just had 30$ headphones); I guess I'll discover after the next purchase.
Thanks for the suggestions

Back at the dawn of time, when the iPhone first launched, it cost $500, which was about twice as expensive as high-end phones at the time. This was when US mobile carriers required a two year contract when purchasing a phone, including the iPhone. The catch, though, was that the iPhone's contract was significantly less expensive than other smartphones, so much so that over the course of a two year contract the iPhone ended up costing less than a Blackberry.
Back then, I had a cash poor friend that rrrreeeaaallllllyyy wanted an iPhone, but just couldn't justify the cost to himself. If he was smart he'd have either scrounged enough cash to purchase the iPhone or else held off altogether till he could afford it. But he didn't. Instead he got a Balckberry and, over two years, spent more than $250 more than he would have if he'd gotten the iPhone.
Needless to say, the two of us are no longer friends.

If you think about the cost of the headphones spread out over time, what you're asking is basically the same: should you spend €1700 on the Arya, or should you spend €2300 on the Arya?

I don't think the "jump" between the HD 598 and the Arya should be too much of a concern. In fact, I think that— because you can already tell a difference between the HD 660 S and the Arya and already know that you prefer the Arya— it's not a concern at all. If you were more uncertain about your preferences, I'd wholeheartedly recommend getting the cheaper headphones and enjoying them to the max. But it seems like a foregone conclusion that you'll end up purchasing the Arya whether or not you get the HD 660 S. So why not cut out the middle man?

My advice to you is the same as to my old friend: either scrape together enough money to buy them now, or save up for a bit until you can more comfortably afford them, but don't spend more money because you can't afford to spend less. That's just silly.

Thanks +megabigeye, money plays (obviously) a good part in the choice, however I might justify that 500 extra on the long run, if actually owning and experiencing good-but-not-gorgeous high-end headphone would help me grow.
However, you made a good point: I guess being able to understand the difference between those 2 headphones means I can appreciate the Arya over the HD660S; would that be enough to consider myself "ready" and skip a step?

Maybe I'm just overthinking Thanks for your advice

 

[megabigeye]

Yes, part of my point is that I think you can safely skip the step of intermediate headphones. I would recommend an intermediate if you weren't sure if you would notice a difference, but you know that you can hear a difference, so the intermediate is unnecessary.

Alternately, if you are really dying to upgrade your headphones as soon as possible, you could look for a used pair of HD 660 S and then sell them for the same price when you're ready to upgrade again.
Personally, I know that I'd never get around to selling anything, so this is not the course I would take. But it is an option.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So you might think: ok he has the answer, he should buy the Arya. Where is the problem?
It would be a huge jump from the HD598 to the Arya, and I read a lot of people saying that the upgrade should be smooth, and so maybe I should buy a decent DAC/AMP and keep my HD598, then buy a pair of HD660S, and only after a while the Arya.

I don't have tons of money and I have to justify hard to myself a purchase of 1700 EUR (Arya), however I listen to music at least 2/3 hours per day (not for work, just for pleasure), and I think it might be worth that investment.

Ananda might be a good and cheaper alternative, however I heard the difference between those, and I'm not sure but I think that I should either stay cheap (with the HD660S) or really do the best investment (Arya).

What should I do? Grow gradually and save some money now, or head to the best? Am I really gonna appreciate and learn if I skip the intermediate steps?

Also, open to hearing from you alternatives to the HD660S or Arya, and for which reason.

The safest headphone (or speaker, for that matter) to buy is always the one you've actually listened to and liked.

Past that, your particular use case (ie if you listened to a headphone but need an IEM for a portable rig, or listened to an IEM but would just listen at home and prefer earpads than faster-wearing foam eartips, etc; in the case of speakers, it'll have to do with whether such speakers are proportional to the room size you'll use them in and the amp you can use) or requirements for upstream components vs what money you're wiling to spend are the only things that should decide against what you've already heard, know, and like in favor of something that at best you'll have people on the internet tell you approximates that for proportionately less money.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

The best way to figure out what to do is to listen such headphones at home.
On my way to my Era-1 i take a lot of sessions at Hifi stores.
I was glad to found a store in munich which offered the option to take them home.
So i was listen with my equipement to them and was pleased with and made my decision.
It was a huge step from my previous K545.
I keeped up save some cash to be comfordable with this purchase and pulled the trigger after 6 months.
Good things are worth to heading for, but to wait for also.

It was the best decision i've could ever made at this point.

4 months later, i've bought a used Audio-gd R28 to compliment my Era-1.
It's audio heaven now.
No need to go further. ( for about a year ) ^^

My advice is to ask for taking the preferred headphones at home for some privat auditions.
That's the best way to make the right decision.
The source/amping components in audio stores are much more expansive to get a real comparison and will drive you into circles.

 

[voodoobunny]

What DAC & amp do you have your HD 598's attached to now? Can you take your own HD 598's to the audio stores where you're auditioning headphones, to listen to them on a better-quality DAC/Amp? You might find that that the upgrade path is more palatable if you get the DAC & amp first, and use them with your HD's, and then step up to the end-game headphones later. Also, looking at it the other way around, if you bring your DAC/amp stack with you then you might find that the end-game headphones don't sound as good on a less-capable DAC & amp setup than they do in the stores.

Speaking from personal (lower-end) experience: my HD 6xx sound significantly better on the iFi iDSD Nano Black DAC/amp combo than they do straight out of my phone; it's a big enough jump that I can say that the HD 6xx aren't anywhere close to their full potential on the iPhone 8. It would be a tragedy to find yourself in that position after spending 1700 EUR on end-game headphones .

 

[Mhog55]

This really depends on what works for you and your habits. Are you someone who is prone to upgradeitis or wants to own a large collection?

If so, there is a lot of pleasure in the slow upgrade path. Otherwise, if you just want one thing you really enjoy using everyday without a second thought, and you're sure the Arya is the best for you at €1700, get the Arya.

Upgradeitis! Good stuff

 

[Mhog55]

If I could afford it, I'd jump straight to what I considered the top of the line for my ears. With all the mid tier cans I've purchased, I kinda wish I had. Though going through and listening to all of these gave me a much better idea of what I like and don't like. The headphone would have to offer more than sound quality though. Comfort, weight, fit, etc., to perfectly compliment my specific needs. I'm currently working on obtaining an 660s myself, and I'm really hoping this will be my end game open back.

 

[pensiero]

The best way to figure out what to do is to listen such headphones at home.
On my way to my Era-1 i take a lot of sessions at Hifi stores.
I was glad to found a store in munich which offered the option to take them home.
So i was listen with my equipement to them and was pleased with and made my decision.
It was a huge step from my previous K545.
I keeped up save some cash to be comfordable with this purchase and pulled the trigger after 6 months.
Good things are worth to heading for, but to wait for also.

It was the best decision i've could ever made at this point.

4 months later, i've bought a used Audio-gd R28 to compliment my Era-1.
It's audio heaven now.
No need to go further. ( for about a year ) ^^

My advice is to ask for taking the preferred headphones at home for some privat auditions.
That's the best way to make the right decision.
The source/amping components in audio stores are much more expansive to get a real comparison and will drive you into circles.

That would be amazing, sadly the audio store doesn't allow that. I guess I could try somewhere else, even if there are not so many headphone-specialized audio stores in Berlin. I'm not sure it's common or not, however I'd say you were quite lucky.

What DAC & amp do you have your HD 598's attached to now? Can you take your own HD 598's to the audio stores where you're auditioning headphones, to listen to them on a better-quality DAC/Amp? You might find that that the upgrade path is more palatable if you get the DAC & amp first, and use them with your HD's, and then step up to the end-game headphones later. Also, looking at it the other way around, if you bring your DAC/amp stack with you then you might find that the end-game headphones don't sound as good on a less-capable DAC & amp setup than they do in the stores.

Speaking from personal (lower-end) experience: my HD 6xx sound significantly better on the iFi iDSD Nano Black DAC/amp combo than they do straight out of my phone; it's a big enough jump that I can say that the HD 6xx aren't anywhere close to their full potential on the iPhone 8. It would be a tragedy to find yourself in that position after spending 1700 EUR on end-game headphones .

This is actually a good suggestion. I was planning to buy a Dragonfly Red, or Dragonfly Cobalt or a Chord Mojo. I tried both Arya and Ananda with the Chord Mojo. With a good amplifier I'd say that the difference between Arya and Ananda was not super huge; with the Chord Mojo Arya kept most of its beauty while the Ananda lost a lot (and this was also one of the reasons I opted on it over Ananda, if my ears didn't fool me, I think Arya is capable of performing well even with not-high-level amplifiers).

However, now the problem: I guess with a portable AMP/DAC like the Dragonfly Red my HD598 would be more than fine, but probably not the Arya. So maybe it's better to opt since the beginning on a DAC/AMP stack like the Shiit (Magni/Modi) or the JDS (AMP/OL) <-- even if finding them in Germany is quite of a challenge, but that's another topic.

If I could afford it, I'd jump straight to what I considered the top of the line for my ears. With all the mid tier cans I've purchased, I kinda wish I had. Though going through and listening to all of these gave me a much better idea of what I like and don't like. The headphone would have to offer more than sound quality though. Comfort, weight, fit, etc., to perfectly compliment my specific needs. I'm currently working on obtaining an 660s myself, and I'm really hoping this will be my end game open back.

I actually didn't have a chance to compare directly the HD660S and Arya/Ananda. Acknowledging that they are on totally different planets, can their "fingerprint" be compared? Or in other words: would the HD660S be more enjoyable on some genres, while Arya on others? Or in one word: are those complementary?


Thanks everyone for you answers

 

[pensiero]

@voodoobunny PS: to answer your first question, no I don't have a AMP/DAC right now, I connect them directly to a macbook

 

[pensiero]

PPS: this is all your fault @Brainiac9000, I started thinking on it after I watched this video

 

[Brainiac9000]

PPS: this is all your fault @Brainiac9000, I started thinking on it after I watched this video

Hahaha! Not sure how it was my fault exactly, but the good news is that I've done the slow journey to the top for you. At the end of my journey, I ended up with my top three headphones being the Hifiman Arya, Sony Z1R, and the Sennheiser HD660S. They all have different sound signatures that suit my listening preferences. I listen to a large variety of genres and also own various solid state and tube amps, and these headphones, in my opinion, are the perfect mix to listen to any genre of music in the manner that someone would prefer. Hope that helps with your decision. I'd say get the Arya now and then the HD660S later.

 

[pensiero]

Hahaha! Not sure how it was my fault exactly, but the good news is that I've done the slow journey to the top for you. At the end of my journey, I ended up with my top three headphones being the Hifiman Arya, Sony Z1R, and the Sennheiser HD660S. They all have different sound signatures that suit my listening preferences. I listen to a large variety of genres and also own various solid state and tube amps, and these headphones, in my opinion, are the perfect mix to listen to any genre of music in the manner that someone would prefer. Hope that helps with your decision. I'd say get the Arya now and then the HD660S later.

Well, I was nearly convinced to buy the Aria, then I saw that video and I started thinking "maybe I would lose the growth path in this way". However, your alternative suggestion sounds fun, buying Arya and then later on HD660S. That is also gonna be much easier to justify as a 500 EUR extra expense if I want to start diversifying my collection.

Keep doing great videos like that