[Durza]

Hey guys, 
I recently got the schiit stack 2 and I'm really interested in getting into tubes now. I was dead set on getting a hybrid, but Zeos's recent vali 2 review has concerned me. In the review he says he has a hard time telling the difference between the vali 2 and a solid state amp. So here are my questions:
1. Should I even succumb to the sweet call of tubes? As an entry level audiophile, will I even notice much of a difference? 
2. Is the tube sound more noticeable on a full tube amp vs a hybrid, and how much? Is it worth that extra money?
3. Recommendations for a full tube or hybrid amp that actually sounds tubey. I really don't want to break 180 usd, so the Little dot MKii mk2 is the only full tube amp I can find in that price range. I'm also looking at the little dot 1+ and bravo lineup.
On to the little dot Mkii questions:
1. Will it be able to properly drive my low impedance headphones?(Akg k7xx; hd598; T20rp mk3) I'm mostly concerned about the T20rp mk3, they are 50 ohm headphones, but are pretty hard to drive. At 50 ohms the little dot MKii should have lower mW output than my portable fiio Q1.
2. How does it sound? There aren't a lot of head fi reviews. Will I notice the difference between the little dot 1+ and the MKii? Between the Schiit stack and the MKii?
 
Thanks so much for any replies!!!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

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Originally Posted by Durza /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I recently got the schiit stack 2 and I'm really interested in getting into tubes now. I was dead set on getting a hybrid, but Zeos's recent vali 2 review has concerned me. In the review he says he has a hard time telling the difference between the vali 2 and a solid state amp. So here are my questions:

 

That's because Schiit makes their amps measure with as little distortion as possible. When they use tubes, the only "tube magic" involved is minimal, just rounding out the rough edges a little bit. Badly recorded cymbals can sound more bearable, not make Norah Jones sound like she needs to snort spicy chicken soup.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durza /img/forum/go_quote.gif

1. Should I even succumb to the sweet call of tubes? As an entry level audiophile, will I even notice much of a difference? 

 

If you get the kind of tube amp that makes Norah Jones sound like you need to waterboard her with spicy chicken soup to sound like what she sounds like, then you'd have to be tone deaf to not notice that. If you use Schiit and a few other brands, well that depends.

 

Ultimately it depends on the circuit design quality and what headphone you're using with them. If it's a design that relies on "tube magic" to sell the product then it will use that fully. If it's one that keeps tube distortion low so your harsh cymbals are rounded out without making you want to take Norah Jones to GitMo to get Srirachaboarded, then that's what they'll do. Numerically the latter amp wouldn't look too good next to some amps, but the thing is, when its distortion starts to kick in, it's different from the distortion you can get out of some other solid state amps.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durza /img/forum/go_quote.gif

2. Is the tube sound more noticeable on a full tube amp vs a hybrid, and how much? Is it worth that extra money?

 

Like I said it really depends on the quality of the circuit design, if it was intended to do it one way or another then it will, but with one exception: Output Transformerless. Advantage there is it cuts costs and some kinds of distortion (that you have to get around, more work but not necessarily impossible). Disadvantage there is that OTL amplifiers have a high output impedance, which means it will have low damping factor with lower impedance headphones. That kind of distortion is most noticeable with bass and it can go one way or the other, ie, compared to a good solid state or hybrid or non-OTL tube amps, an OTL amp can make bass lumpy on one lower impedance  headphone while making another sound like a tin can. 

 

I had the MkII before and it warmed up my HD600 enough that Norah Jones sounds like she needs to get a nebulizer and load it with spicy chicken soup. Similar effect on the SR225, but there it was a bit more welcome as it reduced how grating the treble tended to be with my source at the time, a Pioneer DVD player (my iPod sounded better than that). On the K701 though the bass just wasn't there and the midrange lacked body - unlike with the Meier Cantate for example where what you'd hear with the HD600 and K701 reflects their similar enough graphs If anything at least there was more space between each instrument, but that's still a lot more due to the K701 than the MkII.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durza /img/forum/go_quote.gif

3. Recommendations for a full tube or hybrid amp that actually sounds tubey. I really don't want to break 180 usd, so the Little dot MKii mk2 is the only full tube amp I can find in that price range. I'm also looking at the little dot 1+ and bravo lineup.

 

At that price range there isn't anything past the Little Dot MkII (and Schiit Vali 2 if you count Hybrids) apart from cheaper eBay stuff I wouldn't really trust.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durza /img/forum/go_quote.gif

On to the little dot Mkii questions:

1. Will it be able to properly drive my low impedance headphones?(Akg k7xx; hd598; T20rp mk3) I'm mostly concerned about the T20rp mk3, they are 50 ohm headphones, but are pretty hard to drive. At 50 ohms the little dot MKii should have lower mW output than my portable fiio Q1.

 

Refer to my reply above, and pay particular attention to what it did with the K701 - that' your preview for the K7XX. In short, I won't bet on it with any of those headphones, unless you can get specific feedback that the MkII does well enough.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durza /img/forum/go_quote.gif

2. How does it sound? There aren't a lot of head fi reviews. Will I notice the difference between the little dot 1+ and the MKii? Between the Schiit stack and the MKii?

 

Well I described the MkII above; but I'm not sure how it fares vs those amps. Against the Valhalla though the only thing the Little Dot MkII has on it is price - the Valhalla for example will round out the cymbals so they don't feel like getting a flashbang to your ear, but also without making you want to throw chicken soup at Norah Jones, which is what the MkII made me want to do (unless your earpads are totally fresh, but get enough wear on it and both combine for altering the recordings with a runny nose). Going by that review you cited I suppose the Vali2 is a lot like that.