[neilvg]

I also have this same sensitivity -- and I also seek listening to headphones at louder volumes. What I have been trying to say is that the HE90 coupled with my particular tube set with my particular amp with my source and power regeneration seems to allow this headphone work in this manner. Also newer versus older HE90's are quite different and basically almost everyone who has heard my particular setup has never complained of stridency or fatigue - quite the opposite. It's fully immersive. BUT, your mileage may vary, and there are so many factors. I really want to listen to Andy's (bluebliss's) setup one day, hopefully sooner than later, to determine how different, if at all, the signature of his setup is.

---

Having said that, I would also say, and I have had to deal with this for some time - that the condition of your ears plays a big role. We spend so much time with equipment - making sure you dont have a pressure build up in your ears, that they are properly equalized, that you don't have too much wax causing a distortion of the sound, that your eustachian is properly draining fluid, etc... etc... etc... all play big roles in sound quality as well. Huge roles.

Neil

 

[rsbrsvp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilvg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also have this same sensitivity -- and I also seek listening to headphones at louder volumes. What I have been trying to say is that the HE90 coupled with my particular tube set with my particular amp with my source and power regeneration seems to allow this headphone work in this manner. Also newer versus older HE90's are quite different and basically almost everyone who has heard my particular setup has never complained of stridency or fatigue - quite the opposite. It's fully immersive. BUT, your mileage may vary, and there are so many factors. I really want to listen to Andy's (bluebliss's) setup one day, hopefully sooner than later, to determine how different, if at all, the signature of his setup is. --- Having said that, I would also say, and I have had to deal with this for some time - that the condition of your ears plays a big role. We spend so much time with equipment - making sure you dont have a pressure build up in your ears, that they are properly equalized, that you don't have too much wax causing a distortion of the sound, that your eustachian is properly draining fluid, etc... etc... etc... all play big roles in sound quality as well. Huge roles. Neil

I wouldn't be surprised that no one has complained about ear fatigue in your system because they are probobly using it for short periods of time ie. not day to day for months at loud volumes.

My guess is that for most people the HE90s with a fantastic- non-edgy source are the best you can get for low to moderate volumes over long term listening or high volumes over short term listening. For those who want moderate to higher volumes on a day to day basis over the long term I would GUESS (don't know) that they may be more suseptable to ear fatigue. For the person who wants this avenue he needs to consider the 02 headphone as it does a complete cover up of that strident trebble and still sounds incredible with a dynamic source and transparent cables.

I guess it is up to the person and his listening needs. This by the way has always been my conclusion regarding the 02/HE90 debate. Which is better? Depends on the volume levels you like and how much listening time you put in. Not surprisingly- at meets almost everyone prefers the HE90 because they are listening for short term periods. But many people who listen to both for long periods and who prefer louder volumes end up changing loyalties to the 02. Those who have HE90s and love them and listen every day without ear fatigue proboby listen at lower to more moderate volumes most of the time- which is fine. Those who listen to the HE90 for short periods every day or only a few times a week may choose louder volumes and still love these headphones. However those who like to listen every day for an hour or so all at moderate to louder volumes will very often find the 02's much more pleasant on the ears. I really believe this is the nuts and bolts of the HE90/02 debate. Of course, even a HE90 at loud volumes for long term can be fine on the ears if the source is less dynamic- like a Audio Aero for example but everything I have written is my opinion assumming very dynamic electronics are behind the headphones which I believe is the norm and the best match for electrostats.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blubliss /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmmm, I may need to try a pair of O2s. Do you have the first version or the new one?

First.

 

[ast]

Have owned O2 for a while. By direct comparing it with HE90 (out of the same KGSS), I don't have any experience of listening fatigue. Granted I normally don't listen at very high volume so not too sure if I cranked up the knob for several hours straight what I would feel. O2, overall, is much darker but HE90 is not a "bright can" either, on the contrary, I feel HE90 is on the mellow side comparing to almost all Dynamic cans.

 

[blumenco]

I am pretty excited about this company, actually. The Orpheus system blew my mind several years ago and I think about it almost every day. Not perfect, sure. And that is why I am excited about Heaudio. In the history of the headphone audio world, being "king" for 20 years is like being an honorary elementary school safety patrol for a day (in the rest of the history of audio. Hopefully, Heaudio will find success (as their product sounds like it is WELL worth the money, though I have not heard it), and become a great force in the headphone electrostat world.

I sincerely hope that they do not stop refining their product in order to appease past customers or some notion like that. From what it sounds like, their current production makes people very happy for what they are charging.

As for the early criticisms about there being no website, until very recently, GOTO, ALE did not have websites. In fact, I will let people do their own darned research to figure out exactly who I am talking about, as they are so hard to find information on. Without peer... especially the beryllium diaphragm stuff. As far as amp makers go, that is even harder to nail down. but take a look at electronluv's work (a contemporary, and temporarily out of production (and also a good pairing with ALE, GOTO)). again, so many amp makers out there. hard to say one as the "craziest."

The company I work for is also exotic, but is newer and a little hipper, hence the website period. Disclaimer: I am not advertizing: just demonstrating an essential point about marketing. That you have NEVER heard of or have actually heard the VERY best... And the difference in the very best does not lie in cables necessarily. It is the humidity, the food you ate, the room, the folks you are sitting with, a whole host of "human" conditions, IMO.

Luckily for us that are driven by the craziest of forces, there is no top of the mountain. I hope that Heaudio keeps climbing.

-Clark

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsbrsvp /img/forum/go_quote.gif For those who want moderate to higher volumes on a day to day basis over the long term I would GUESS (don't know) that they may be more suseptable to ear fatigue. For the person who wants this avenue he needs to consider the 02 headphone as it does a complete cover up of that strident trebble and still sounds incredible with a dynamic source and transparent cables.

LOL. Have you considered the possibility that one *has* to listen at loud levels to be satisfied *because* of "complete cover up of that strident trebble"?

It really doesn't matter what 'phone one prefers now b/c down the line, the ears won't be able to tell them apart anyway

 

[derekbmn]

One of the truly great things about the 1.2B is that it doesn't need to be played very loud to "wake up" like so many other phones.

 

[Duggeh]

I've found the "wake up" of a transducer to be related to the quality of its provided amplification. Better amps result in better control at lower volumes. Necessitating less volume for "drive".

 

[blumenco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've found the "wake up" of a transducer to be related to the quality of its provided amplification. Better amps result in better control at lower volumes. Necessitating less volume for "drive".

That can be because of the amp's volume control more than anything.

try a transformer type rather than a potentiometer. stepped attenuator is indeed good. but transformer is better, IMO.

Some people yank sliders out of old german mixing consoles and sell them on ebay. it requires fabrication of a powersupply and soldering a few other things to get them to work "alone" usually, but it is worth it.

-Clark

 

[Duggeh]

^ your volume control reasoning doesnt apply for the differences in a power amp with the same pre amp, which I have heard.

 

[derekbmn]

Lets put it this way - with all things (amplification, etc.) being equal the 1.2Bs "wake up" at a lower volume level than the SR-007s. All IMO after doing much A/Bing of the two.

 

[Yikes]

I have limited experience with the HE90, just at the odd meet. So I can't really compare the EH-1.2B to the 90's. What I can say is that the EH-1.2B's are at this point doing nothing wrong, perhaps in comparison to a set of HE90's or possibly O2's I might notice something that could be better, but without direct comparisons I can find no fault with the EH-1.2B's.

To say that I'm pleased with my Woo Audio GES (Loaded, including Siltech internal wiring) and HeAudio EH1.2B setup is a tremendous understatement. I'm continually amazed by the amount of detail and the resolution that this setup delivers in an absolutely musical manner.

I'd never consider spending what people expect for a used set of HE90's. It's insane, thousands of dollars for a long discontinued product without any parts support. If they slip and fall wrong it would be a catastrophe! No, for me the EH1.2B's make much more sense. HeAudio (Head Direct) appears to be providing proper post sale support, not to mention that they cost a small fraction of what the 90's cost so if they stop supporting them or if they break it is nowhere near the same degree of disaster.

 

[braillediver]

"long discontinued product without any parts support. "

I believe they are still supported by Sennheiser. They just release the new ones 2 or 3 years ago so they definately still support the HE90.


Mitch

 

[spritzer]

Volume level has nothing to do with how difficult something is to drive and what kind of attenuation is used matters even less. The impedance of electrostatic drivers varies a lot with frequency so the current delivery of the amp is very important (or the voltage will drop with the impedance) and so is the slew rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver /img/forum/go_quote.gif "long discontinued product without any parts support. " I believe they are still supported by Sennheiser. They just release the new ones 2 or 3 years ago so they definately still support the HE90. Mitch

The last of the new phones still have about 2.5 years left on the warranty so they will definitely support them just as Stax still supports the SR-Omega (though in usual Stax style, with new parts from current models).

 

[blumenco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ your volume control reasoning doesnt apply for the differences in a power amp with the same pre amp, which I have heard.

In a way, no. in a way yes: if you are willing to see that the pre amp is not actually in the "same" power amp, and that the whole system is mutable (warranty voiding),

Then you can certainly play around with VC types, by rewiring things and to great effect. I feel personally that VC tweaks come atcha in this order

Headphone, amp, source, power supply and general circuit mods if applicable (amp and source), VC betterment, isolation (small (or large) smooth river rocks or polished wood blocks work well), and make your own cables....they are much better than the bought ones and it is good to stick to minimalist designs.

By smartly DIYing a bit, you don't get that audiophile "sound." you get somthing much different. you get "music."

-Clark