Heads Up! Terror in the skies....
Jul 22, 2004 at 3:29 AM Post #46 of 63
Here’s another interesting report and more information involving terrorists probing airplane security. Some people might say, “It’s the Washington Times” and dismiss the story but the fact remains it’s happening today. Political correctness won’t let people do their jobs.

This is an interesting quote:
“A second pilot said that, on one of his recent flights, an air marshal forced his way into the lavatory at the front of his plane after a man of Middle Eastern descent locked himself in for a long period.
The marshal found the mirror had been removed and the man was attempting to break through the wall. The cockpit was on the other side.”

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...1403-1508r.htm

The funny part is if the 9/11 terrorists had been stopped at the airport gates and the attacks prevented they would have sued the airlines and won because there was no concrete evidence of the conspiracy to attack the airplanes. They had nothing illegal on them and except for some minor immigration violations they were not wanted for anything.

Keep your heads in the sand. After all G. W. Bush is the real threat.


Mitch
 
Jul 22, 2004 at 4:36 AM Post #47 of 63
Allow me to quote liberally from the article cited above. If it violates Head-fi's protocol on copywritten material, feel free to remove it.

Skipping over the Detroit-L.A. "incident," discussed thoroughly above, and on to the new account of a disturbance on a flight from San Juan to JFK:

A Middle Eastern passenger attempted to videotape out the window as the plane taxied on takeoff and, when told by a flight attendant it was not permitted, "gave her a mean look and stopped taping," said a written report of the San Juan incident by a flight attendant.

A traveller with a camcorder on an airplane is told to turn it off, and does so, but with "a mean look." Would this have any significance if it was an American passenger? If not, its only real relevance to terrorism is that the man is Middle Eastern, and I think it's pretty clear we need a more concentrated approach to terrorist apprehension than removing all Middle Eastern men, 18 to 60, from airplanes. But let's read on.

The group of six men sat near one another, pretended to be strangers, but after careful observation from flight attendants, it was apparent "all six knew each other," the report said.
"They were very careful when we were in their area to seem separate and pretended to be sleeping, but when we were out of the twilight area, they were watching and communicating," the report said.


Why so vague? Shouldn't we be looking for some more convincing evidence of sinister planning than: "sat near one another," "pretended to be strangers," "were watching and communicating." Since there's no comment on what they were saying, we can assume they were speaking Arabic (or something other than English, at any rate). Is it shocking for strangers on an airplane to strike up conversations? Is it surprising that Arabic speakers on an airplane might look to converse with others who speak Arabic? There's just absolutely nothing here (so far) that's not vague to the point of meaninglessness. I'm glad that these flight attendants are observing passengers so closely, so that they'll be ready when something legitimately alarming happens, but (a) I don't see anything yet and (b) I hope they're keeping an eye out for any light-skinned psychos or mass murderers as well.

The men made several trips to the bathroom and congregated in that area, and were told at least twice by a flight attendant to return to their seats. The suspicious behavior was relayed to airline officials in midflight and additional background checks were conducted.

As someone who flies on a semi-regular, if not constant, basis, neither bathroom trips nor groups standing near the bathroom strike me as particularly unusual. I'm still looking for something more specific. Again, I'm glad that the attendants are watching out, and background checks are a good idea -- but why does this article conveniently leave out the results of those background checks?

A second pilot said that, on one of his recent flights, an air marshal forced his way into the lavatory at the front of his plane after a man of Middle Eastern descent locked himself in for a long period.
The marshal found the mirror had been removed and the man was attempting to break through the wall. The cockpit was on the other side.
The second pilot said terrorists are "absolutely" testing security.


Ah, things become more clear. At last, some evidence of legitimate criminal intention. Clearly, an attempt at breaking into the cockpit (!!!!!!) is serious stuff. I'm not being sarcastic or joking in any way, if anything this concrete had appeared earlier my approach to these stories would have been far different. But why, oh why, does the venue change here from 02/15/04, American Airlines Flight 1732, San Juan to JFK (very specific) to . . . "a recent flight." Does it strike anyone as unusual that such detailed information, including a written report, is available about Flight 1732, but nothing about this other flight that, apparently, the pilot mentions only in passing and without any of the detailed information available with a far less tangible threat? Uncanny how as soon as vital information (the sort that could be used to, you know, verify this story) disappears, the terrorist activity becomes far more pronounced.

She said a flight attendant reported that a passenger was using a telephoto lens to take sequential photos of the cockpit door.
The passenger was stopped, and the incident, which happened two months ago, was reported to officials. But when the attendant checked back last week on the outcome, she was told her report had been lost.


We don't have the name of the airline, or the flight number, or its arrival/destination points, or the exact date, or the identity of the flight attendant, or the titles and agencies of the officials she reported this incident to, or any explanation for the lack of such details. And the report is lost. Smoking gun if I ever saw one.

A third pilot reported watching a man of Middle Eastern descent at the same airport using binoculars to get airplane tail numbers and writing the numbers in a notebook to correspond with flight numbers.
"It's a probe. They are probing us," said a second air marshal, who confirmed that Middle Eastern men try to flush out marshals by rushing the cockpit and stopping suddenly.


More of the same. When not pressed for details that could discredit them, these anonymous pilots, attendants, and officials seem far more capable of presenting legitimately dangerous activity.

Look, we need to fight terrorism, and if it takes bringing all airlines to a halt on a daily basis I'd be for it, if officials just went about it in a more rational way. I think we ought to focus first on keeping those terrorist suspects whose names we actually have (for instance, many of the 9/11 hijackers, if I recall correctly) from getting on board. Seems like a more successful plan of action than stirring up fear and mistrust with anonymous reports of vaguely puzzling activity by Middle Eastern men in general.
 
Jul 22, 2004 at 1:32 PM Post #48 of 63
“and if it takes bringing all airlines to a halt on a daily basis I'd be for it”

Now that’s a brilliant idea. That kind of statement leaves you with out any credibility since you have no concept of the implications of what you said but you still spout off.

35,000 flights a day cancelled. Why not just suspend our economy on a daily basis?

Consider what the 14 plane tickets half way across the country cost for the 14 Syrians? They must be a well-paid band?

You’re obviously predisposed to not believe any of this and grasp at every possible explanation to discredit the accounts. I think you are the one stretching the realms of credibility.


Mitch
 
Jul 22, 2004 at 7:03 PM Post #49 of 63
So I "grasp at every possible explanation," but you choose to take issue with exactly zero of the points I made above? I didn't literally mean that I think the airlines should be shut down entirely every time there's a potential problem, I was just trying to get across the fact that I'm not against tough security regulations and thorough background checks of suspicious figures. You choose to overlook the intended hyperbole of those half-dozen words (in a post of about 9 paragraphs that you seem content to leave alone) and state that I've lost all credibility?

You linked to the story, and I argued against it. Do you have any actual argument for it, or will you just try to distract attention from the legitimacy of what I wrote?
 
Jul 23, 2004 at 8:33 PM Post #52 of 63
I spent the earlier part of today at the Fire Acedemy where there are now 2 FBI field agents as well as three agents from Homeland and they all have been getting a huge kick out of this story. They have been there doing Haz Mat and Emergency Management training and these guys are telling us all that this story has gotten much more mileage than it should. It's one of those things that just has you wondering "How stupid can people really be?" There are so many points in this story that ring loudly of fabrication that I just never really thought it was true. I hope that we can all see this for what it is.

I was watching Mr. and Mrs. Jacobson on Fox and they performed the same teary eyed act they did on Scarborough Country down to her husband reading from his journal the exact same lines. Seemed more like he was reading from a script to me.
 
Jul 23, 2004 at 9:43 PM Post #53 of 63
Somehow, I get the feeling many people believe her.
now I'm far from a lib but even I was wary of this account and I just jumped on this bandwagon 2 days ago. (only because I know many journalist/writers embellish their accounts) What does mrs. jacobson look like anyway?
The last time I was on a large plane, it was teens coming back from a trip. almost all of them were not in their seat and was walking around. same thing happened when I was on a plane to colo springs when some olympians arrived back home.
One time on a small commuter jet, post 9/11, was a loud mouth nyc'er who was drinking prior to the flight and was hitting on every southern girl on the plane. (going to NC) The jet taxied on to the runway and spooling it's engine to full throttle when this nitwit decides to unbuckle his seatbelt and gets up.
The flight attendent screamed at the top of her lungs to get him to sit down. he replied he needed something out of his pockets.
nowadays, anyone with a duffle bag is supicious, but only if it applies to all. Students will be carrying their belongings to school soon in duffle bags, will they get the same look as a ME person with a duffle bag and a map?
now I know why most people hate nyc folks.
 
Jul 23, 2004 at 10:07 PM Post #54 of 63
Jul 24, 2004 at 3:55 AM Post #56 of 63
That article has been discussed, Blindtiger. Well, I discussed it I least. No one has yet bothered to really defend it. I'd like to hear from some of the members who called people discrediting Annie Jacobsen "ignorant" and naive, and see if they have anything to offer by way of an apology.
 
Jul 24, 2004 at 7:11 AM Post #58 of 63
Quote:

Originally Posted by ray4jc
i saw this on cnn the other night......make sure no DIY amp builders are making amps on airplanes lol.....

ray



Lol, that is hilarious!
 
Jul 24, 2004 at 9:11 AM Post #59 of 63
Yes, I thought the writer is kind of paranoid. But it is easy to understand her paranoia considering the fact that she felt her life was at stake. What created her fear, is it just what has happened or is it also what some people keep saying might happen. How do we distinguish useful warning from propaganda? I don't know.

I think she has the right to be afraid.
What breeds her fear? Terrorism.
What breeds terrorism? Hatred.
What breeds hatred? Well, it is really hard to calm down and listen to people who hate you and figure out why.
 
Jul 24, 2004 at 9:37 AM Post #60 of 63
She keeps on refering to political correctness being a barrier to air safety. Does this mean she would like to ban all those journalists with a nervous disposition from flights too because they might be hysterical like her?

While we are at it why not ban everyone from doing everything in case something happens to someone?

I'm afraid that her attitude is at best xenophobic, and at worst racist.
 

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