[joojoo2915]

I just started work at HeadRoom on Monday, just so you know where I'm coming from.

Everyone I have met so far has been extremely nice and very knowledgeable in their jobs. They really do care that their customers get a quality product, no one has any desire to sell you snake oil.

My opinion:

Cable upgrades are absolutely not worth it. Music is just thousands of changing volts. If a cable is capable of carrying the voltage (anything bigger than say, 22 gauge), and does not have extra processing, you will not notice any difference in the sound.

Amplifiers will also sound the same so long as their volumes are matched within a certain amount and they don't provide any extra processing (equalizer, time allignment, etc.).

Excellent read on the subject can be found here.

 

[Naris]

I think that Headroom's a lovely company. They seem quite passionate about their work. I've nothing but good things to say about them.

As for their recommendation that the ibuds are decent... I'd disagree, but only when compared to my old MX300 or any good headphone I've ever used. I'd say the earbuds that come with cheap cd players and DAPs are worse than ibuds. The earbud category itself seems to be rather loaded with crap (with it being the bundled headphone of choice for most portable players, it is a good place for companies to cut corners).

I know nothing of cables, how they work to improve the sound. What I do know is that I bought an aftermarket cable with the intent of comparing it to my regular cable in the hopes that I wouldn't find a difference, could sell the cable, and never have to buy anything but an inexpensive (but still decent quality) cable ever again. I do happen to notice a difference... whether or not that difference is due to the cable being really good or the stock cable being really bad I don't know.

It's not the largest difference though. I doubt most people would miss it. Then again, the people who frequent head-fi tend not to be 'most people,' at least not in the sense of not caring what their equipment sounds like. Just my thoughts of course.

 

[maarek99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoo2915 Cable upgrades are absolutely not worth it. Music is just thousands of changing volts. If a cable is capable of carrying the voltage (anything bigger than say, 22 gauge), and does not have extra processing, you will not notice any difference in the sound.

It's still weird that the Van Den Hul "The Name" interconnect sounds slow and a bit dull compared to the Qed Qunex 2. My qed broke and I had to get another so I just bought the vdh. After a while I noticed that something was missing. The extra sparkle, everything was a bit flat. So I bought a Qunex 2 to replace. And lo and behold. It sounds better to me with my hd650.


Quote:

Amplifiers will also sound the same so long as their volumes are matched within a certain amount and they don't provide any extra processing (equalizer, time allignment, etc.).

That's strange considering how different my Rega Ear sound to my Black Cube Linear.

 

[RichardCory]

As far as I'm concerned, any company that offers a 30-day money-back guaranty is going to be reputable.

 

[fondy44]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad to hear that Headroom is a trustworthy business, their portable amps look tempting.
As for the recabling subject, I guess it makes sense that someone building their ideal setup would want to make sure all the links in the chain are the same high quality. It just seems (from a marketing view) that it would be easier to convince someone to upgrade the parts on a lower-end headphone than it would be for a flagship model. Then again, from reading the replies, I can tell that I still have a lot to learn about the technical side of things.

 

[DoomV1]

I've always had great experiences with HeadRoom and have alot of time for both the company and their products. Cardas make some very good cables and the HD650 cable is a vast improvement over the stock cable IME. However, many other cables also improve on the stock cable though which one suits you best can only be determined by your own ears. I've also spoken to people who prefer the stock cable, albeit not so many.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fondy44 It just seems (from a marketing view) that it would be easier to convince someone to upgrade the parts on a lower-end headphone than it would be for a flagship model.

I think it's just a matter of target customer. Anybody buying a $100 headphone would likely plug it into a moderately priced system, one that might not benefit from a cable upgrade. It sometimes takes a very high quality system to get the full benefits of a cable upgrade. I'm sure they could easily sell such upgrades on low end headphones, but if they don't believe the average consumer can notice the difference, that's honesty.

I'm of the opinion that cables give the least bang for the buck as far as upgrades are concerned. You are betting buying a better headphone with the same money than taking a cheaper headphone and upgrading the cable. But once you reach the top of the line headphone in any one brand, only then does it make sense to upgrade the cable. Personally, I've found differences among cables only make a minimal difference, perhaps its the limitation of my system or my listening habits. But I've always found much more dramatic improvements in improving the source components of my system.

Lastly, upgrading the cable allows you to customize the length of it for exactly your use. Often, the cable might not be long enough and you can also upgrade to a longer or shorter length (and not use extension cables that can degrade the sound for longer lengths)

As for the comment about the iPod headphones, they were just probably being politically correct in saying they aren't absolute crap. You don't really want to insult your potential customer in saying what they own now is crap.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

My feeling about the iPod ear bud is that they aren't that bad sounding when compared to most earbuds. In my opinion, you do get modest improvements with the MX400 for example, but not huge gains. I don't think I've EVER heard an earbud that elivates itself anything above "tolerable".

On the issue of cables: when I went on the "World of Headphones Tour" the most common expression of surprise at changes in sound quality was the improvement realized with cable upgrades. Many people said that it made more difference than switching amplifiers. I'm not sure I buy it, but that was the comments.

One thing to be cautious of is that when you first enter this hobby is that you haven't developed a sophisticater ear yer. It does take a while to develope a listening sense that doesn't "drift" around with your most current listening experiences. Upon just entering this hobby I suggest that your purchases should be along the lines of commonly agreed upon good performers. For example I think the Sennheiser HD580 is a great first high-end can. For an amp I would suggest something along the lines of a Gilmore Lite, SR-71, or Micro w/Desktop Module. Once you get VERYaccustom with this set up, try a replacement cable for the 580. I think you'll find that it makes a pretty significant difference.

 

[James63]

Headroom is a great company and you can trust them!

 

[nspindel]

I'd like to chime in a bit here. HeadRoom is just an absolutely top notch company. And that starts from the top down, beginning with the guy who's posted just above me. Tyll really has a passion for this business, considering he pretty much invented it. He's personally taken the time to give me lots of good advice along the way, and I thank him publicly for it.

As for the Cardas cable, I have one for my 650 and it definitely offers an improvement over the stock cable. I think Sennheiser probably concedes this, considering they designed the stock cable to be un-pluggable for easy replacement.

As for the Micro Amp powering the 650, you were definitely doing something wrong. And I'll give 10-1 odds it was not having the gain switch in the proper position. I listen to the Senns through the Micro Amp all the time, and it has NO PROBLEM powering these cans. BUT, you've got to have the gain set to high. If you have the gain set to medium (or low even worse), of course the power will sound lacking. When I listen to my RS-1's through the Micro Amp, on the other hand, I'll blow my head off with the gain on high.

Another possibility was that you were using weak batteries, but more likely it was the gain.

Come to the national meet in April, I'll have my 650's and Micro Amp with me. I'll be happy to demonstrate how the Micro Amp makes the 650's sing sweet....

 

[Steve999]

Bingo. On the off-chance that the folks at headroom can get commissions, I'll try to make sure you get any from anything headroom sells to me.

It took courage for you to post that.

Of course, there is some sub-par equipment out there that is the exception that proves your general rules, such as noisy amps or amps with poor channel balance or under-powered portable amps.

I hope the rest of the folks at headroom can learn from you. Your post makes it much more likely I would buy something from headroom, which, in my view does some things very well (value ratings, return policy, headphone measurements, narrative descriptions of headphones), but also peddles some snake-oil (headphone cables, expensive headphone amps). I consider them a mixed bag. The bad stuff is not as bad as best buy and circuit city pushing monster cable, I suppose, and it doesn't exactly threaten world peace, but it's unfortunate nonetheless, IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoo2915 I just started work at HeadRoom on Monday, just so you know where I'm coming from. Everyone I have met so far has been extremely nice and very knowledgeable in their jobs. They really do care that their customers get a quality product, no one has any desire to sell you snake oil. My opinion: Cable upgrades are absolutely not worth it... Amplifiers will also sound the same so long as their volumes are matched within a certain amount and they don't provide any extra processing (equalizer, time allignment, etc.). Excellent read on the subject can be found here.

 

[Trogdor]

I'm sorry I'm having a bad day but fondy44, if you really have been lurking around then:

1. That Search tab on the the top is your friend
2. Google is your friend
3. Reading other peoples posts regarding these subjects is your friend

After the above, you would be more informed and as a result will be able to ask more pertinent questions to your exact situation. I'm not tryiinig to come off harsh, but c'mon...use the freek'n Search button...type "HeadRoom" and "cable", etc.

I think we need a like a newbee's corner or HeadRoom Wiki. Lately its like I'm reading the same post over and over again...and its not like I'm Jahn the post-whore...

 

[Steve999]

I thought he posted a great question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor I'm sorry I'm having a bad day but fondy44, if you really have been lurking around then: That Search tab on the the top is your friend Google is your friend Reading other peoples posts regarding these subjects is your friend After the above, you would be more informed and as a result will be able to ask more pertinent questions to your exact situation. I'm not tryiinig to come off harsh, but c'mon...use the freek'n Search button...type "HeadRoom" and "cable", etc. I think we need a like a newbee's corner or HeadRoom Wiki. Lately its like I'm reading the same post over and over again...and its not like I'm Jahn the post-whore...

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoo2915 My opinion: Cable upgrades are absolutely not worth it. Music is just thousands of changing volts. If a cable is capable of carrying the voltage (anything bigger than say, 22 gauge), and does not have extra processing, you will not notice any difference in the sound. Amplifiers will also sound the same so long as their volumes are matched within a certain amount and they don't provide any extra processing (equalizer, time allignment, etc.).

Why work for a company if you don't believe in what they sell (their cables and amps)?

It seems you have done your own research and fall into the objectivist camp....But...since you are going to be working there and have access to all their high end cables and amps, you are in a position to really determine this for yourself if you keep an open mind. Listen and learn from their experience. Maybe you'll still come to the same conclusion (that amps and cables all sound the same) or not.

 

[joojoo2915]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver Why work for a company if you don't believe in what they sell (their cables and amps)? It seems you have done your own research and fall into the objectivist camp....But...since you are going to be working there and have access to all their high end cables and amps, you are in a position to really determine this for yourself if you keep an open mind. Listen and learn from their experience. Maybe you'll still come to the same conclusion (that amps and cables all sound the same) or not.

I do believe in what they sell, but maybe for different reasons than you, or some of the other members on this board. Just because all amplifiers sound the same (below clipping, without processing, same wattage, etc.) doesn't mean that they are all made the same. There are absolutely different levels of quality in regards to amplifiers, I would just contend that it doesn't have to do with how they sound.

Cables can be made to reject noise, shortened or lengthened to your specifications or maybe just be made to look better with your current setup. It is my opinion, however, that if you were to conduct a double blind and adequately controlled experiment you would not be able to notice a difference in cables. I have not taken part in such an experiment, though, and until I do I will absolutely keep my mind open to the possible advantages of cable replacement.