Headphones with paper drivers?

[xyr]

2 questions:

-Are there any phones with paper cones?

-Which model with paper is the cheapest?

 

[Punslayer]

The only headphones I know of with paper cones are the Sony PFR-V1. I have no idea how expensive they are in Europe though.

 

[Alpha 1 Omega]

ebay search for 1970's headphones..

LINK

LINK

LINK

 

[krmathis]

Paper more or less equal cellulose, right?
If so, then I think the Sony MDR-R10 apply. Since afaik its drivers are made of cellulose.

 

[Duggeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Paper more or less equal cellulose, right?

Only in the same way that glue more or less equals a horse.

 

[TheMarchingMule]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Only in the same way that glue more or less equals a horse.

LOL

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Only in the same way that glue more or less equals a horse.

Well, then we don't agree...

"Paper is thin material mainly used for writing upon, printing upon or packaging. It is produced by pressing together moist fibers, typically cellulose pulp derived from wood, rags or grasses, and drying them into flexible sheets."
Paper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Currawong]

I'm curious to know why the interest in paper drivers.

 

[Duggeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, then we don't agree... "Paper is thin material mainly used for writing upon, printing upon or packaging. It is produced by pressing together moist fibers, typically cellulose pulp derived from wood, rags or grasses, and drying them into flexible sheets." Paper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And a horse is an animal which is ground down in the glue machine and made into glue which is a sticky substance used for binding materials such as paper together.

Cellulose is a chemical, while yes it is one of the chemicals which forms the structure of paper is is in no way the same as paper than glue is the same as a horse. Just because one contains the constituants of the other does not make them comparible in physical application. I cannot stick pieces of paper together using a horse (although I can with glue) and you cannot make decent sounding headphone moving coil transducer diaphrams out of paper (although you can make them out of cellulose).

 

[krmathis]

^ OK, backing out!

 

[b0dhi]

The Denons use microfibre, although I'm not sure what material. They have some very nice square wave responses in the new HR graphs - the best in fact.

 

[xyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm curious to know why the interest in paper drivers.

I just love the sound of paper fullrangers in speakers, so I think I will appreciate their headphone equivalents just the same.

I'd like to find some cheap (open type) headphones with good paper drivers and then mod them to perfection.

 

[Duggeh]

You're working under a faulty hypothesis. Speaker drivers have large excursions and large radiating areas and as such have to be made of materials that trade off weight per area for rigid strength. Headphone drivers move less air and are smaller and thus can more easily be manufactured with thinner lighter per rigidity materials like plastics.

Using paper for a headphone driver increases weight which decreases fine motor control of the driver which results in less accurate sound.

Look at very high end dynamic speakers, oft times the drivers are not paper or woven kevlar or fibrous materials but thinnly presssed aluminium, titanium or even of course in the case of stats, plastics.

 

[xyr]

I think that paper membranes in regular speakers are lighter and less rigid than most of the kevlar, plastic or metallic ones, but OK, I get your point. Headphone manufacturers can use a wider palette of materials (and probably have an easier task in making a good driver), and the rules are just not the same.

Thin ultrafast mylar (or what was the name of that plastic) in electrostats would probably be the best from headphone world for me sonically, but it's also out of my financial reach for now. I love open, spacious and transparent sound but I'll have to find an (much, much) cheaper alternative.

Metallic membranes in speaker drivers can produce some annoying resonances and sound harsh and fatiguing to me (B&W tweeters come to my mind). Well, things are never black and white, and I'm not saying that metallic membranes in general sound bad. It's just a matter of personal taste I developed over the years. I'm sure thin light metal can be very fast and resolving and sound great in a headphone, but I'd rather skip that category altogether. Just call me ignorant.

Paper membranes remind me of tube amps with their euphonic colorations and imperfections. They have a character, their way of interpreting the music, a certain naturalness (I hate that adjective and people who buy that "nature=all good" newage marketing). Paper membrane doesn't guarantee anything, but in some cases it just works for me. I understand paper can be a bit heavy for headphones when compared to some fancy modern plastic material, but I'd really like to hear it for myself.

I hoped to see headphones with a minimally constricted, bigger than usual, hi sensitivity, paper cone drivers. Too bad MDR-R10 are not open back. Oh... and they cost an arm and a leg!

On the other hand tiny constricted PFR-V1 are not my cup of tea. I'll check out ebay for those old drivers to see if I can get anything interesting... Any other suggestions?

Cellulose or impregnated paper, I don't care...

EDIT: Let's leave dynamic plastic membrane alternatives to electrostats for another thread

 

[Peter Pinna]

There are two horses which are stuck together running really fast and one horse turns to the other one and says "Boy, did we ever get out of there in the nick of time!"