[gooeyrich]

So generally and roughly speaking, what percentage of the Orpheus sound quality does one get with something like the Utopia?

 

[jenkinsontherun]

I was firmly a STAX zealot for a time. Still am an electrostat zealot as the Neolith are my speaker reference.

The SR-Omega is the original SR-007. It simply is the only stat with the laid-back, warmed nature of Orpheus lineage.

One-sentence STAX descriptors. Ultra revealing, hyper fast starts and stops with little leading edge. That scale slides with better amplification as well.

Now modern cans: They've caught up. Barely. And limited.

The only modern cans that portray true stat detail/speed are the SR1a (leading technical class headphone on planet earth with a huge caveat,) 1266 Phi TC and Susvara.

I think you need to stop. Take listening as a first step. All anecdotes are only so helpful if you continue flying blind. Keep dreaming though.

It's nice to get a different opinion on a forum that is arguably designed to get you to buy stuff. For various reasons, I agree with your assessment, wanting more headphones is largely unwarranted given that I have a pair of nice closed-back daily drivers.

Shouldn't this be in Summit?

Can I ask, what is meant by this? I couldn't find a "summit" category on the forum. Perhaps you referred to the wording of what I describe the Orpheus as - it is summit, true.

So generally and roughly speaking, what percentage of the Orpheus sound quality does one get with something like the Utopia?

I will let others answer this but the tough part is, imo, percentiles are not productive. Who creates the percentile scale.

 

[Sefelt103]

Someone posted this list on the new Beyerdynamic T1 (3rd version) thread.
https://crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/
May be of some interest in your search.

 

[bagwell359]

Can I ask, what is meant by this? I couldn't find a "summit" category on the forum. Perhaps you referred to the wording of what I describe the Orpheus as - it is summit, true.

Home > Forums > Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) > High-end Audio Forum

Discussions for the RAAL, HE-6, HE-6se, HEK v2, HEK se, Utopia, Empyrean, Stax-009S, Hugo *, Blue Hawaii, LCD-4, HD-800S, Abyss *, AND MANY threads re: Orpheus,

 

[jenkinsontherun]

Home > Forums > Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) > High-end Audio Forum

Discussions for the RAAL, HE-6, HE-6se, HEK v2, HEK se, Utopia, Empyrean, Stax-009S, Hugo *, Blue Hawaii, LCD-4, HD-800S, Abyss *, AND MANY threads re: Orpheus,

I think that a case can be made for either side. After all, we are only talking about HE90 from a relative standpoint. Meaning, low/mid-fi users like myself would benefit from seeing this discussion, whereas if this was in the summit-fi category, people may miss out. To be even more clear, there are likely people who are more enticed to buy the HD600/HD650's, given that they are compared to a much more expensive headphone. These same people would not browse the summit fi portion.

Again a case can be made for either side, and I'll consider it more carefully next time. I stand by this thread's category, however.

 

[bagwell359]

The amount of mentions in Summit compared to here gives a clear indication of what place people go to read and write about them.

 

[jenkinsontherun]

Edit: please ignore this post in particular. I'm dumb. bagwell359 was just trying to help. I apologise.

The amount of mentions in Summit compared to here gives a clear indication of what place people go to read and write about them.

I went ahead and illustrated the point I am trying to make.

We are not really talking about the Orpheus directly, but from a relative standpoint. We are talking about headphones that sound like Orpheus, which are not necessarily in summit fi. What is the purpose - to discover budget headphones that sound like Orpheus.

The image above: sure, it mentions Orpheus many times, but is that important in this context? I would argue, no. It brings to light that Orpheus is the existing King, but that a newer model, as unlikely as it is, may overrule its position. Of course it's an extreme comparison, but the purpose is still the same.

The HD600/HD650, often given their own reviews but almost certainly never compared to the Orpheus in a formal manner (like this thread), would be on the radar of many people entering the hobby after reading these posts. Would the same people go to the summit fi category looking for discussions on the HD600/HD650? That answer is no, because the summit-fi's purpose is not to focus on non-summit-fi headphones like the HD600/650.

Even the second line of the original post explains it.

 

[bagwell359]

I went ahead and illustrated the point I am trying to make.

We are not really talking about the Orpheus directly, but from a relative standpoint. We are talking about headphones that sound like Orpheus, which are not necessarily in summit fi. What is the purpose - to discover budget headphones that sound like Orpheus.

The image above: sure, it mentions Orpheus many times, but is that important in this context? I would argue, no. It brings to light that Orpheus is the existing King, but that a newer model, as unlikely as it is, may overrule its position. Of course it's an extreme comparison, but the purpose is still the same.

The HD600/HD650, often given their own reviews but almost certainly never compared to the Orpheus in a formal manner (like this thread), would be on the radar of many people entering the hobby after reading these posts. Would the same people go to the summit fi category looking for discussions on the HD600/HD650? That answer is no, because the summit-fi's purpose is not to focus on non-summit-fi headphones like the HD600/650.

Even the second line of the original post explains it.

Not many have heard the Orpheus. I'm a big fan of the HD-600. It sounds really good on a OTL tube amp. It's not an Orpheus. Why not use a more contemporary model such as the Susvara as a label to indicate a great headphone? The Orpheus is basically mythical to most experienced hobbyists. I would say very few newbies with a budget closer to the HD-600 knows what the Susvara is vs knows about the Orpheus. Is educating these people about the Orpheus a good use of your time? A very rare (325 made before 2006 and expensive) is known first hand by very few, I know the Susvara, Emp, Abyss Phi, HEK se, HEK v2, HD-800S, LCD-4, E2, Voce, 007, 009, HE-6 (all 3), Utopia, Clear, RAAL snd others - never heard an Orpheus HE-90 and don't expect too. You risk people ignoring the comparison of the HE-90 to sub $500 headphones because most will attach a value based on the cost. Dom Perignon Rose costs a lot more than some generic Brut - it's a lot better too. Or an Audi R8 vs a Mitsubishi Eclipse.

As an ex Marketer I'd say "The Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650 compete favorably with some of the best headphones available." No need to explain a name that's known to just a few, and point made.

 

[jenkinsontherun]

Not many have heard the Orpheus. I'm a big fan of the HD-600. It sounds really good on a OTL tube amp. It's not an Orpheus. Why not use a more contemporary model such as the Susvara as a label to indicate a great headphone? The Orpheus is basically mythical to most experienced hobbyists. I would say very few newbies with a budget closer to the HD-600 knows what the Susvara is vs knows about the Orpheus. Is educating these people about the Orpheus a good use of your time? A very rare (325 made before 2006 and expensive) is known first hand by very few, I know the Susvara, Emp, Abyss Phi, HEK se, HEK v2, HD-800S, LCD-4, E2, Voce, 007, 009, HE-6 (all 3), Utopia, Clear, RAAL snd others - never heard an Orpheus HE-90 and don't expect too. You risk people ignoring the comparison of the HE-90 to sub $500 headphones because most will attach a value based on the cost. Dom Perignon Rose costs a lot more than some generic Brut - it's a lot better too. Or an Audi R8 vs a Mitsubishi Eclipse.

As an ex Marketer I'd say "The Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650 compete favorably with some of the best headphones available." No need to explain a name that's known to just a few, and point made.

I skimmed over your post and didn't get into the details, but I want to thank you for alleviating the tension (if there was any) between the discussion on where this thread should go. I'll admit I was going too deep into the discussion, and again you changed the subject which is great.

You seem to know what you're talking about, so I hope the discussion can continue!

 

[eric343]

HE90 is very clear and detailed, with very deep but not strong bass, and a tremendously musical somewhat warm quality. HD600 and friends are not even close. HD800 I've only heard for a few minutes but could be a step in the right direction. Stax Omega II (SR-007) has lots of bass but not the wide-open top end or soundstage of the HE90, they are two different headphones.

 

[jenkinsontherun]

HE90 is very clear and detailed, with very deep but not strong bass, and a tremendously musical somewhat warm quality. HD600 and friends are not even close. HD800 I've only heard for a few minutes but could be a step in the right direction. Stax Omega II (SR-007) has lots of bass but not the wide-open top end or soundstage of the HE90, they are two different headphones.

It's interesting how you provide such a polarising opinion to what was generally agreed in the earlier parts of this thread. But it's understandable - comparing $300 headphone to 20k+ setup.

 

[eric343]

People talked about "transparent and delicate," that seems accurate enough. But I did own the HE90 and HD600 and SR-007 for many years, built amplifiers for them, took them to many meets, and even wrote an HE90 - HE60 - SR-007 comparison review:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/he6...eus-vs-stax-omega-2-first-impressions.112135/

 

[Mach3]

Now that I currently own both the HE60 and HE90. I can agree to a certain extent that yes in a way the HE60 is about 90% of the HE90.
However, that missing 10% is kinda important, just when you thought the HE60 has enough detail and resolution.
As soon as I switch to the HE90 when comparing the 2, it evident that the HE90 extract even more finer details with no harshness and super smooth.
Soundstage is much more spacious, bass has better warmth to it that goes much deeper.
The sound is extremely addictive and intimate, which I don't get the same sense when I listen to the HE60.
Don't get me wrong the HE60 is still a ripper of a setup, I prefer it definitely over the HD600, HD650, HD700 and the HD800.

 

[bifcake]

Now that I currently own both the HE60 and HE90. I can agree to a certain extent that yes in a way the HE60 is about 90% of the HE90.
However, that missing 10% is kinda important, just when you thought the HE60 has enough detail and resolution.
As soon as I switch to the HE90 when comparing the 2, it evident that the HE90 extract even more finer details with no harshness and super smooth.
Soundstage is much more spacious, bass has better warmth to it that goes much deeper.
The sound is extremely addictive and intimate, which I don't get the same sense when I listen to the HE60.
Don't get me wrong the HE60 is still a ripper of a setup, I prefer it definitely over the HD600, HD650, HD700 and the HD800.

I would have to revisit the HE60, but I remember disliking them quite a bit. I remember thinking at the time that I'd rather have my HD580s than the HE60s at any price. The same goes for Stax headphones. I never understood what all the hoopla was about. They seemed very dry and uninvolving to me.

 

[eric343]

I would have to revisit the HE60, but I remember disliking them quite a bit. I remember thinking at the time that I'd rather have my HD580s than the HE60s at any price. The same goes for Stax headphones. I never understood what all the hoopla was about. They seemed very dry and uninvolving to me.

Yes, that was my first impression as well -- when I heard the HE60 on the original amplifier, I hated them. But when I heard the HE60 on a different amplifier they sounded much better.