[DoNotBugMe]

Purpose

I'll be using these headphones in EQUAL amounts for computer usage (gaming, classical music exclusively) and for use with a digital piano/keyboard (that I have yet to decide on). Because I live in an appartment where the walls conduct sound better than they block it, a closed pair is my only option unless there's an open pair that leaks very little.

Background/Why do I need this?

I'm a college student who's been playing the piano for over 11 years now. I "quit" because I couldn't bring the normal piano to college for obvious reasons. I'm now thinking that one option that will allow me to continue is to buy a decent digital piano, so I can play in silence without waking up my neighbors. Along with this, I'm badly in need of a good pair of headphones.

What I am looking for

Closed headphones, good soundstage, comfortable to wear, suitable for both gaming and for use with the piano. Low impedance is a plus since I'm driving it off a laptop with an Audigy 2 ZS notebook card.

As for the piano, I'm looking for something that's close to the real thing as is reasonably possible (I can be rather picky about this). This means that first and foremost, it's gotta feel good and secondly, it's gotta sound good. Having additional voices and features is a plus (composition on the computer is fun!), but isn't necessary. I will be using the piano regularly (as in every day).

What do you recommend?

So the question is two fold, what headphones would you recommend, and what digital piano would you recommend? Here is what I already have in mind.

Headphones
Audio-Technica A900 - Great for the computer side of my usage, but how about the piano?

Digital Piano/Keyboard (new budget and requirements here)
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141195

My budget for the headphones is capped at $200 unless there's something for $250 that would really be a vast improvement.

 

[White Fox]

I use the PX-300 (still $499 at MF) and DT-880s plugged into a Corda HA-2 for music listening and practicing.

I've only really extensively compared two headphones for use with the keyboard: the Senn 280 Pro & Beyer DT-880. I can say that I much prefer the Beyers for both sound and comfort. Even out of the keyboard's own headphone jack, the DT-880s are more convincing. My only real beef with the Casio is there is slight background noise out of the headphone jacks at close to realistic levels with both headphones. Other than that, I'm satisfied as a beginning player.

Even though I haven't really played or listened to other digital pianos other than that line of Casios (I have listened to samples of the P60/P90/P120), I think looking for headphones with more of an analytical quality might be a good idea (ie. studio monitor-type cans). The term 'digititis' really doesn't come to mind while playing the PX-300, and I can't imagine that much more expensive digital pianos would sound much worse.

Even though the Beyers are better for both CD music listening and playing, the 280s still come in handy in noisey situations, and are good sounding on their own. If you do go and audition keyboards, I would bring some good headphones. 1. The built-in speakers on keyboards are small and vary from model to model (some don't even have speakers). 2. There could be alot of background noise in the store.

Even though the Yamahas have more sophisticated samples, I actually prefer the sound of the Grand Piano 1 variation ('Rock Piano') on the PX-300 over the samples of the P90 Grand tones on Yamaha's website. I've never been a fan of the Yamaha piano sound, though. I also like the variation of the Electric Piano 1 ('Dyno Elec Piano') on the PX-300, but I'm more of a jazzhead. If you do get the PX-300, ditch the flimsy damper pedal that comes with it (I use the M-Audio SP-2).

I see Casio has just come out with the PX-110 & 310. I guess they're supposed to have a better sample, but I haven't played them. One thing about the PX-100/110: they don't have dedicated line-outs. You would have to use the headphone jack to output to an amp or mixer (other than Midi). M-Audio has just come out with a 88-key, weighted digital piano. I listened to samples on their website, and it sounds okay (they use samples of a Yamaha piano).

Here's a good forum for Digital Pianos:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ul...?/forum/6.html

 

[dvallere]

We have a Yamaha some-other-model-than-what-you-posted. When I use headphones with it, I use my very crappy Sony wireless ones since all our other cans are tethered to PCs, DAPs, stereo, and it's a pain to drag them around. I get decent sound but a lot of wireless hiss.

However, I went to Guitar Center a few weeks ago and they had a test pair of Beyer 880s, AND they had our same digital keyboard on display, so I borrowed the Beyers, plugged them into their floor model of the Yamaha, and played, and it was grand...if I were going to buy a pair just for the keyboard it would be the Beyers.

 

[umlaut]

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use open-style headphones. You say your apartment conducts sound easily... But unless someone else is in the room no one is going to hear the feeble tone percolating from your cans.

I have a Casio PS-20. Very pretty brushed stainless and light wood combination. Matches easily to an Ikea-style chair. (I use "Adam".)

I think it just got discontinued so you may be able to find it still if you search around. Get the stand as well as I tried going without and it just didn't look right or sit stable. 88 keys, but you need that if you're doing Classical. Gotta sacrifice some portability for the music.

My Sennheiser PX100s work great with it. They are open, but again, that won't matter unless someone is trying to sleep a few feet away. You'll get a better sense of space too with open.

See the manual:
http://www.americanmusical.com/manua...s20_manual.pdf

Google Image Search "casio ps20" for a color view. It's prettier than their newer "Privia" line. The PS-20 fits in better as furniture so that's a bonus. Doesn't look like some MIDI-only tool like some do.

It has a few different voices - eight - just enough to be amused. It's not the stereotypical 1980s Casio with lame drum beat backings. Harpsichord, vibes, some different reverbs, that's about it for extras. Definitely a "digital piano" and not a synthesizer.

Great touch. Velocity-sensitive and has different sampled sounds dependent on swiftness of (simulated) hammer-strike... so it's not just louder.

I paid about $599 I think? Then $99 for the stand.

Plus there's MIDI output, etc for expandability if you're feeling whimsical.

Kudos to returning to music-making!
Let us know what you choose...

 

[umlaut]

Ack!

I think Casio has now re-issued or licensed the Casio PS20 I recommended as the Adesso PS88. Sadly, the "Adesso" version is definitely uglier. Wood is grainier, tacky Adesso logo, buttons are not very refined looking. Gets good reviews still though (as it should assuming the guts are identical).

 

[DoNotBugMe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by umlaut I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use open-style headphones. You say your apartment conducts sound easily... But unless someone else is in the room no one is going to hear the feeble tone percolating from your cans.

I might have second thoughts about that if I can hear things as "soft" as the person talking on the phone next door, and she doesn't have a loud voice either. The walls are *that* good at conducting sound.

Either way, I do care more about specs like impedance (I can't have it too high, otherwise my computer won't drive it), sound quality on both devices, soundstage and comfort. The Beyers are great, but a rating of 250 ohms for the 880 (the best in their line) won't work for the computer. I don't intend to purchase 2 sets for portability and logistical reasons.

After browsing the piano forums, it appears that AKG's are overwhelmingly popular for piano usage (or maybe it's coincidence). Can somebody here confirm?

 

[raythatiknow]

i'm thinking, if you've played for 11+ years, touch should be a major selling point when searching for a digital piano/keyboard. i, personally, have a Kawai MP 9000. the sounds from japanese digital piano/keyboard makers are of lesser quality than their european counterparts, but the "feel" of the keyboard... that market is cornered by japan.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Used-Kawai-...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-P200-Keyb...QQcmdZViewItem


from the looks of these links, these will run you to about the further limits of your budget. but you have to ask yourself how passionate you are about playing your instrument. these two keyboards, for your budget, i swear, are your best bets. they are stripped bare bones digital pianos that concentrate more on reproducing the true piano action. no cutesy electric drummer to accompany you.

go to your closest music store and find one of these (kawai now makes an mp 9500 - improved touch over 9000 series) and play some Hanon warm-ups and go to some other rinky dink keyboards and try some Hanon. Try and see how fast you can just do simple major scale runs. Most keyboards have little or no resistance and your fingers will flop about like how a track runner would slip and slide running the 100M in church shoes.

but with resistance! (keys made of wood! with hammer action?) the key word is CONTROL. the little nuances a seasoned pianist emotes can be heard. phrasing with dynamics. expression. etc.

now, nothing can beat a real piano. and chances are, the pianos that are out for students to practice on (if you're majoring or minoring in music - maybe they'll give you a set of keys to open the lock on a nice baby grand that's not in shabby shape) at your campus completely suck. AND, even if you do have access to a nice instrument.. what can beat a piano in your own room that you can fiddle with between pulling your hair out while copying chem lab data from someone who took that same class the semester before and figuring out what your purpose in life is?

i say, "go for broke". get a digital piano that gets my nod or even the one that billy joel takes to hotels if he doesnt have access to a real grand (yamaha p200s on up). (Btw, i hate billy joel). a digital piano with graded hammer mumbojumbo action. they all have a different name for it. but you can definitely feel the difference. that is, unless your parents pissed 11 years of paying second rate piano instructors away for you to not even know the difference and settle for a Casio.


raymond.



here's my edit.. sorry.
i didn't have any recommendations on headphones because that's the reason i'm on this website! good luck picking and i hope you pick the "right" one!

 

[Budley007]

That Yamaha P200 looks sweet. I currently own a Roland XV-88. Think it's a bit out of your budget and you'd have to buy the SRX-02 expansion board to get the piano sound I'd recommend. I've messed around with a few Yamahas and like the stock piano sound. I can only recommend Grado SR225 headphones, since they're the only ones I use with my keyboard. Sound great with no amp. Goodluck with your purchase.

 

[DoNotBugMe]

If you recommend the P200, I'm assuming that you would recommend the newer P250 which seems to be a very popular model. Even when listening to the MP3 samples and through junky earphones, I could tell quite a difference in sound between the P250 and the P90/120.

I'm also looking at Roland's answer to the P250, the RD700SX which is another popular model. I'll have to try these all out to see which feels best for me.

 

[raythatiknow]

i guess if you don't mind extending your credit, the p250 is for you! it's like twice as much new, though, as the link i gave you for the p200 which included a stand (heh, not that big a deal i guess!).

another important thing in choosing the right digital piano is matching one that suits your style of play. some people like to play with heavy hands and need much resistance and some, well, you get my drift. try not to go in with too much a "yamaha" bias. try 'em all and see which keyboard "feels" the best. (i'm saying this because i was bent on buying another Yamaha product but just felt, for my fingers, it felt too easy to accidentally play loud - but everybody is different! that's why some people here seem to like closed vs. open cans or vice versa)

another thing to keep in mind is that if you extend your budget to include a product such as the p250, you still haven't solved the problem of:

1)a sturdy stand for your keyboard - i recommend something resembling a table with four legs. those stands that look like an "x" will fall over with real piano feel playing.
2)a stand for your music books. again, i recommend something sturdy. the cast iron variety music stand works good! the flimsy wiry looking stands are meant for sheet music and will fold over and bend with time
3)a good decent bench.
4)possible extra light source for reading purposes
5)the friggin' headphones!

if i think of anything else to be long winded about i'll reply again!

btw. i literally just received some entry level Sennheisers. (485)
they arent broken in yet but the piano sounds bright through it. i'm going to mess with the onboard sounds to see if i can fix that. but, like i said in a previous post, with japanese brands, the sample sounds werent given the same technical refinement as the actual action of the keyboard.

useless information: are you familiar with the physics of sound? - more specifically, overtones?

eh, i gotta go. good luck

 

[DoNotBugMe]

Yes, I'm familiar with the basics of the physics of sound (that's a mouthful to say!).

As I said, I'm looking both at Yamaha and Roland models. Somebody in the Member's Lounge pointed out Kawai as another option, but I'm having a hard time locating an online retailer that carries them. And as far as I've checked, they are sold by only one dealer in the area. I'll check and see what I can do...

So to update the original list and budget...

Look below for updates.

 

[DoNotBugMe]

If you'd like to see the continuation of my search for a digital piano, read the other thread I made.

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141195

Any more suggestions for headphones?