Headphone speed and its effect

[JazzHands]

Hi!

I'm reading a lot about how fast headphones and earphones are. How exactly do fast headphones become fast? What benefits are there to music? How can I tell if a headphone or earphone is fast or slow? I figure there must be some definitive way of saying, "Oh listen to that! These headphones aren't very fast!"

I know this comes up more commonly with speakers. Do the same principles apply?

 

[b0dhi]

Some people will tell you it has to do with the highest frequency they can reproduce but IMO it's usually just how many treble peaks they have and how shallow (as opposed to deep) the bass goes. Having a relatively weak bass response also seems to help.

 

[ClieOS]

My point of view derives from the comparison of different 'phones, especially when you are A/Bing them. Some give you the sense of speed, some give you more of a laid back/relaxing feeling of slowness, even though you are listening to the same song.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

How exactly do fast headphones become fast?

The nature of the driver and how it is actuated determine how fast it is. Drivers with more mass move more slowly. This is why dynamic drivers are slower than balanced armatures, electrostats, or other kinds of transducers.

Quote:

What benefits are there to music?

Better treble reproduction, and a smoother more "natural" rendering of instruments and voices. The speed of the driver allows for more accurate rendering of minute details and makes the overall sound more articulate. That is, the driver reproduces the signal deftly, rather than trying to keep up with it.

Quote:

How can I tell if a headphone or earphone is fast or slow? I figure there must be some definitive way of saying, "Oh listen to that! These headphones aren't very fast!"

The easiest way is to listen to percussion-heavy music. Does the sound of the drums begin instantly and not linger longer than it should? Or is there a subtle (but noticeable) "lead-in" to the sound? Quality of guitar rendering is also a good gauge of headphone speed. When multiple strings are plucked at once, a faster headphone will allow you to hear the distinct sound of each string, but a slower one will blend the sound somewhat; there is less "space" between the sounds, and between the sound of that instrument and others.

Quote:

I know this comes up more commonly with speakers. Do the same principles apply?

Yes.

 

[moogoob]

I think Piccolo has it- I can definitely notice that my Grados are faster than my Senns. Sometimes, such speed isn't needed or wanted, for example with laid-back music, but with metal/prog the Grado sound is ideal.

 

[billinkansas]

When I first heard Stax cans, there was something really effortless about the sound, as though there was no resistance or inertia to overcome in the drivers. Everything was right there, already happening. To my ears, that's speed.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moogoob Sometimes, such speed isn't needed or wanted, for example with laid-back music.

I have to disagree. When you think about it rationally, a faster driver will always give a more accurate and realistic reproduction of an audio signal than a slower one, because it will be able to follow the signal more closely, and the faster a driver is, the more realistic the sound it produces will be.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

IMHO PiccoloNamek and Billinkansas nailed it. But to notice those effects of "true" speed -opposed to "fake" speed which is delivered from transducers showing response peaks in the lower-mid treble- you also need very low distortion at the headphones and a very fast source-amplifier.

Some headphones are very fast, but have some distortion issues, like the stock D5000, which can obscure it.
It also is worthless having very fast cans if your amp is slow and smooths transients, compresses dynamic swings or causes the opposite, overshooting attacks due to excessive feedback use.

Rgrds

 

[^adm^]

@Cool_Torpedo
I experienced speed of headphones but amplifiers have speed too? That doesnt make sense to me :/

 

[moogoob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have to disagree. When you think about it rationally, a faster driver will always give a more accurate and realistic reproduction of an audio signal than a slower one, because it will be able to follow the signal more closely, and the faster a driver is, the more realistic the sound it produces will be.

Whatever works for your ears and gear.

I prefer Bjork on my Senns, though.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^adm^ /img/forum/go_quote.gif @Cool_Torpedo I experienced speed of headphones but amplifiers have speed too? That doesnt make sense to me :/

Then you'll need to get a pair of fast headphones and listen to them using different amps, then you'll know how different a slow amp can sound from a fast one. Of course most of these things are subtle and require some practice to spot them. Unless you have an oscilloscope and a signal generator, so you can see what's the rise time and looks of different waves, the only way to observe such things is learning to catch the sonic clues for those features.

Rgrds

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moogoob /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whatever works for your ears and gear. I prefer Bjork on my Senns, though.

You can prefer any sound you want to, but what I said is a fact, plain and simple.

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can prefer any sound you want to, but what I said is a fact, plain and simple.

You have yet to objectively define what this mysterious "speed" you seem to know as a fact actually is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then you'll need to get a pair of fast headphones and listen to them using different amps, then you'll know how different a slow amp can sound from a fast one. Of course most of these things are subtle and require some practice to spot them. Unless you have an oscilloscope and a signal generator, so you can see what's the rise time and looks of different waves, the only way to observe such things is learning to catch the sonic clues for those features.

How would you know that the change in sound is due to the speed (by which I assume you mean slew rate) of the amplifier instead of a change in the frequency response caused by the pairing of that particular load with that particular amplifier?

 

[PiccoloNamek]

I wasn't aware that the term was ambiguous. "Speed" is simply how fast the driver is capable of accelerating and moving. Speed is how fast the driver responds to a sudden rise in the amplitude of a signal - a transient -. Speed is how fast the driver moves (however that may be), determining how much information is transduced in any given period of time. A faster headphone will transduce the input signal into sound more accurately. Therefore, a headphone with a very fast-moving element with quick acceleration will always produce more realistic sound than one that is slower.

Think of an electrostatic versus a dynamic headphone. They both produce vibrations in the air by moving back and forth. But the electrostatic driver's diaphragm is many times less massive than the dynamic headphone's diaphragm, not to mention the coil and other components. Because of this, it starts more quickly, stops more quickly, and goes through it's back and forth movement far more quickly than a dynamic headphone. Because the signal being sent to the headphone is an analog, time continuous signal, the faster headphone will always reproduce this signal more accurately. assuming all other factors are nominal.

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wasn't aware that the term was ambiguous. "Speed" is simply how fast the driver is capable of accelerating and moving. Speed is how fast the driver responds to a sudden rise in the amplitude of a signal - a transient -. Speed is how fast the driver moves (however that may be), determining how much information is transduced in any given period of time. A faster headphone will transduce the input signal into sound more accurately.

What you're describing is the frequency response. "Faster" by this definition is basically how high the (true - not manufacturer's) frequency response goes (comparatively). Assuming most drivers have a strong response at 20Khz, how would having a higher frequency response beyond the audible range make drum hits or voices sound any different?