Headphone soundstage?

[Samuli]

Hi,

I was wondering how you perceive the illusion of a soundstage with your headphones. I remember I was pretty amazed when I heard some sounds coming far off the phones when auditioning Senn HD600 at a local store.

This is few years back and the audiotion was rather short, so I'm not sure if I just made up that feeling

. Anyways now I have the DT880 and can't get that illusion no matter how I position them. It seems, compared to my previous phones (Ultrasone HFI-700), that only the 'hall in my head' is a bit larger than it used be.

DT880 supposedly has a great soundstage so is this the best I can expect from headphones?

Cheers

Samuli

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

The AKG K1000 and Sony R10 both have much better and larger soundstaging than the DT880, but of course they'll cost you dearly

 

[soupy]

i also feel that the dt880's have awesome soundstaging...but imo, i felt that the sony qualia's had the most realistic soundstaging I've ever heard. of course, that'd cost you dearly as well too

. I haven't heard the R10's yet so I can't say nething about those...

 

[Samuli]

Thanks for fast reply guys

Phones you mentioned would surely be better at soundstaging than DT880, but would even them do the trick of placing instruments out of ones head. Or is it that they just increase the 'spacey' feeling?

I swear I heard tambourine on Jamiroquais album about 40cm to my right when auditioning those HD600. ..Again maybe there was something funny in the coffee they served at the store..

 

[Aman]

No, you probably are just experiencing the "earstage" effect given from many headphones.

The DT880s DO have good soundstaging, but this could be largely limited by the type of interconnects you use. I felt that the thing that opened up most with the purchase of nice interconnects was the soundstaging.

If you are using generic/Radio Shack brand cables, it may be time to upgrade (once more, a dearly-costing sort of thing

)

Otherwise, I don't see why you'd say the DT880s have a worse soundstage than the HD600s. I feel that almost all Beyers have better soundstaging than the Sennheisers (save the HD595).

 

[saint.panda]

It must have been the coffee

I found that the Beyerdynamic 880's soundstage was indeed quite big but it didn't sound as coherent as the HD 650's as if Beyerdynamic was using some kind of a trick to increase the soundstage size. Of course, they all use tricks to create soundstage on headphones but the Sennheiser magician was just better at disappearing before my ears. Nevertheless, maybe that's just me.

The king of soundstage is the AKG K1000, which provides an incredibly spacious feeling. The music seems to merge with the room and sometimes I have to double check whether the music is coming from the speakers or the headphones since both are run off an integrated amp.

In the end, the recording plays the biggest role. On Alicia Key's new album, there's a track (maybe #7?) which starts off with a short scream. No matter which headphones I use, I always feel that sound is coming from afar back in the room - almost scary.

 

[Samuli]

You might be just right there Aman.
I'll ask by hifi-dealer to bring some IC's to test as I've been wanting to buy more decent ones for my speaker rig anyways. I'm now using Tech+link cheapo-ones, though they are still pretty well made. Far more sturdy and better quality than what comes with audioequipment.

Hope that will help. I'll be posting impressions if someones interested.

 

[ssportclay]

I am not all that impressed with the DT880 soundstage.Everything is either hard left,hard right,or center.The DT860 is much better where everything is focused individually in 3D space.

 

[Samuli]

Not my impressions of the DT880 at all. I've found instruments are nicely spreaded all over the 'landscape' though not very pin-point. but What bugs me, is that everythings inside my head. Like having a concert hall there.

I want these voices out of my head!!

 

[PTheD]

Samuli - So what you are saying is that the Beyerdynamic DT880s have a good soundstage, the placement of diffirent sounds is spread out well around the available "sonic space," but that the sonic space is not very expansive so even though the sound is spread out in it well isn't still not very big? Is that right?

 

[Samuli]

PThed,

It's a bit more complicated than that: Depending on album there can be even a fairly big and spacious sounding room, but all sounds are still clearly located inside my head. I remember hearing sounds _outside_ of my head with the HD600s. It's that kind of effect I'm hoping to get with the Beyers too. Now the furthest sounds I get is from where the drivers are located.

I'd like to know if there's a way to get the kind of soundstage I heard with the HD600 and how many of you hear sounds coming more in the space around you rather than only from drivers and in the head.

To make myself more clear: There's enough _illusion_ of sonic space, but the space is located in my head, not expanding around my head.

 

[Kirosia]

I think the dt880 has a good soundstage. Thing is, if I run from a bad source, is sounds undeniably horrible. (IHP->amp-> dt880 = massive headache) Not too bad from my D211. I also agree, that things aren't as coherent as they could be. The vocals also kinda mess things up. They're forward, and can sometimes seem out of place considering the wide/deep soundstage. That and the somewhat dry/analytical sound led me to sell it off.

 

[Samuli]

I agree with the dry/analytical sound. Luckily my CA dvd smooths things to enjoyable level though. From xbox and lo-fi soundcard things can (and will)sound tizzy and thin.

Not to go off-topic here: I'd still like to hear your experiences on the soundstage expanding out ones head.

 

[sbulack]

I find soundstage to come from the entire audio path, rather than being a property of primarily the headphones. With the same IC, amp and headphone, I get a noticably larger, more coherent soundstage using my DVD Player as my source over my soundcard. Similarly, with the DVD Player, PPA and AKG K501, I get a nicely larger, more coherent soundstage using the Signal Cable Analog II IC over other similar quality IC's I've tried. Using my soundcard, I prefer the soundstage with another IC over that with the Signal Cable Analog II. So, I find that component interactions are significant in the achieved soundstage. Similarly, with the DVD Player, IC, and AKG K501, I get a nicely larger, more coherent soundstage using my PPA over using my new Headsave Classic (although I prefer the Classic's textural/timbral properties to those of the PPA). Finally, using the DVD Player, Signal Cable IC and PPA, I get a substantially larger, more coherent soundstage from my AKG K501 over my Grado SR225. So, I find that the really open, well outside my head and very coherent soundstage that I enjoy comes from all of the components in my audio path and the interactions between them. Given that, you'll have to do some experimentation with your audio path components (and their combination) in order to find a soundstage that satisfies you. If you look at the modest equipment in my sig, you'll see that it can be had without a large price tag.