[George Hincapie]

I am currently using AQ Night Hawk Carbon. Which headphones should be on my short list to upgrade? Pretty sure the last time I asked this the response was 'don't bother', but just checking again in case new products have been released that would offer a logical upgrade path.

 

[CoryGillmore]

After a certain point, it's not so much an upgrade you'll get, but just a different sound signature. Ask yourself what it is you wish your Night Hawk did better/different, then go from there.

 

[znev777]

I'd say Aeon Flow Opens are similar, bassy and laid-back with a similar zing up top for a little flavor. They don't have that strange quality Nighthawks do, they sound mostly normal. I can't say I notice much of a different in the technicalities, I'd say Aeons are slightly better in that regard, but is it worth increased cost? I'm not sure. I do find the Aeons even more comfortable, they don't have that awkward heaviness, and I think the ear pads softer and plusher. I prefer the Aeons overall, but I do find myself wanting to snag one of those $200 Nighthawks off of eBay just to have. Aeon opens aren't too expensive used, I got a pair for $425 a bit ago. They do need a decent amount of power though, if you don't have a proper amp you'll need to buy one, they aren't efficient like the Hawks.

 

[CoryGillmore]

I'd say Aeon Flow Opens are similar, bassy and laid-back with a similar zing up top for a little flavor. They don't have that strange quality Nighthawks do, they sound mostly normal. I can't say I notice much of a different in the technicalities, I'd say Aeons are slightly better in that regard, but is it worth increased cost? I'm not sure. I do find the Aeons even more comfortable, they don't have that awkward heaviness, and I think the ear pads softer and plusher. I prefer the Aeons overall, but I do find myself wanting to snag one of those $200 Nighthawks off of eBay just to have. Aeon opens aren't too expensive used, I got a pair for $425 a bit ago. They do need a decent amount of power though, if you don't have a proper amp you'll need to buy one, they aren't efficient like the Hawks.

Speaking of...there's a used pair right now for $425 on these very forums.

 

[bagwell359]

You could try the classics. Senn HD-600 for a near tonal correctness cheap, or a variant such as the 660. Then a planar. I'm afraid a used HFM HE-500 with the fuzzor mod for about $385 still carries the day for rock, jazz, etc.

 

[FastAndClean]

don't get the Aeon, it has cramped dynamics, get some Hifimans, i had HE500, if you can tolerate the weight it is amazing and a real upgrade to the Audioquest (i had the NH before them)

 

[George Hincapie]

don't get the Aeon, it has cramped dynamics, get some Hifimans, i had HE500, if you can tolerate the weight it is amazing and a real upgrade to the Audioquest (i had the NH before them)

I'll have a look into those, thanks. Do they need much to drive them?

 

[protoss]

@George Hincapie

Headphones hasnt progress sadly. Headphones from the 1980s and the technology it created hasnt been beaten.

The clear progression is in Amplifers and Dacs. We got THX 789 amps less than $500 and Dacs in the $250-$500 range that goes toe to toe with $5000 dacs sadly. So, there is clear progression here.

Concerning headphones.

2009 HD800 still hasnt been beaten completely. And if someone says yes. It will be a $5000-6000 Abyss/Susvara with another $5000 amp and dac. All for a 5% increase in sound.

HD800 are in the range of $600 to $900 dollars now. Bargain of the century

My picks:

HD800
LCD2C or LCD X
Hifiman XX or Ananada
ZMF Aeolus
Ether flow massdrop

All these headphones are less than $1000. Do not spend any higher

 

[FastAndClean]

I'll have a look into those, thanks. Do they need much to drive them?

They react better to power, something with like 2w per channel will be great

 

[bagwell359]

@George Hincapie

Headphones hasnt progress sadly. Headphones from the 1980s and the technology it created hasnt been beaten.

The clear progression is in Amplifers and Dacs. We got THX 789 amps less than $500 and Dacs in the $250-$500 range that goes toe to toe with $5000 dacs sadly. So, there is clear progression here.

Concerning headphones.

2009 HD800 still hasnt been beaten completely. And if someone says yes. It will be a $5000-6000 Abyss/Susvara with another $5000 amp and dac. All for a 5% increase in sound.

HD800 are in the range of $600 to $900 dollars now. Bargain of the century

My picks:

HD800
LCD2C or LCD X
Hifiman XX or Ananada
ZMF Aeolus
Ether flow massdrop

All these headphones are less than $1000. Do not spend any higher

I can't agree with this assessment. Firstly all the cans you recommend are no more than 10 years old. Also the 800S available at about $950 used avoid the brutal spike in the highs of the 800.

35 years ago: There was no ribbon then. Was there even a planar 35 years ago? There wasn't a notable one before 2009, and you list several. The best estats are much better than even 12 years ago. Dynamics? AKG 240, Beyers..... Senn was still messing around with those flat foam jobs. HD-600 much better later, and 800S a little better more recently. No SoTA in the 1980's for headphones

 

[George Hincapie]

I really do NOT want bright headphones - they must be as neutral as neutral can be - that's one of the reasons why I went for the AQ NHs in the first place.

Are the HD800S neutral? Trying to read between the lines...

 

[bagwell359]

I really do NOT want bright headphones - they must be as neutral as neutral can be - that's one of the reasons why I went for the AQ NHs in the first place.

Are the HD800S neutral? Trying to read between the lines...

800S definition kings but lacking bass kick and bit too much highs. They say EQ can do marvelous things to them. Classify as classical and small ensemble cans. Not for head banging.

 

[bagwell359]

don't get the Aeon, it has cramped dynamics, get some Hifimans, i had HE500, if you can tolerate the weight it is amazing and a real upgrade to the Audioquest (i had the NH before them)

Agree on Aeons. Small soundstage. No match for the Mrspeakers E1.1 Closed, he-500, HEX v2, or even the Senn HD-600, or lcd2 which I dislike.

 

[BubbaJay]

The Audeze LCD-2C would be a nice step up from the NH. I have both and I feel the 2C would fit what your looking for, as would the Aeon.

 

[protoss]

@bagwell359

Of course you agree. You just not thinking deeply enough.

Not sure if I should go sarcastic or historical on you lol. But realize 90% do not know the history of headphones here. Guess there's one direction I can go.

First of all. Of course the list I listed are 10 years old or younger. What you want me to list? A R-10 that cost around 8K to 12K base on the condition that only 0.001% can own?

2nd, the consensus is that HD800 is way better than the HD800S. It's been polled.
The OG HD800 is just picky with amps, that's where the peaky treble comes. About 60% of amps are not good with the HD800. IF you mod it with a SDR mod than it's 40% are not good with it and if you copper cable it. Than 25% of amp are not good with it. And so forth.

It's been well documented which amps are great with the HD800. No need to worry anymore. http://www.headphoneer.com/hd800-amplifier-review/
And yes, I like the HD800S Get one also because its an HD800 !

History time:

Dynamics been around the 1930s
Electrostatic from 1959 (Thanks STAX)
Planar around the 1970s
Electret driver been around 1970s
ATM drivers from the 1970s/80s

Ribbon drivers around early 1990s. Ribbon Speakers from the 1990s. What you want to talk about is 2018 SR1A ribbon headphones. It's the same tech from the 90s shrink down to headphones now. First of it's kind sure. Is it superior to Staxs or other headphones? Lol no. We talking about a $3500 SR1A with a dedicated speaker amp that you need to power these, which is another $2000 to 5000 dollars. This wiill never be on my list of affordable headphones!

The best Estats better than the last 12 years headphones? You mean Staxs only.

Staxs from the 1970s to 2019 are a dominant specie. Anything from Staxs, equal dominance. Their first headphone from 1959 is out dated but the revision in the 1960s SR3 is quite good. But from 1970s and onwards Staxs headphones are crazy good.

Is the Stax 009 better than the HD800? It depends. Sure. Is it 50% better? No. More like 10% better

Planar headphones from the 1970s are amazing. And here is a planar history. Planar are heavy. It's the revolution of Hifiman and Mr-speakers making planar featherweight that is revolutionary. So give thanks to hifiman and so forth for featherweight planar tech.

But the sound of planars can be found in the 70s/80s


Again I repeat Headphones from the 1980s. Especially, 1987 to 1994 headphones are next to untouchable.

But who has $10,000 to buy those. 95% people dont. And this is not what we are talking about originally. Or what i posted.

Again @George Hincapie , do not spend anything higher than $1000. Not even the Sr1A headphone that cost $3500 with an addition of a good speaker amp that cost another $3000.

Here is my list again

HD800
LCD2C or LCD X
Hifiman XX or Ananada
ZMF Aeolus
Ether flow massdrop

Added 2 more

Sendy Aivas
Neumann NDH20

All these headphone is your next pick. And all of them is less than $1000. Do not spend any higher.