[ProtegeManiac]

However, I am unsure about what's coming out the back of your speakers. Can you post a pic?

What he has is basically the decades old predecessor to what we now call "shelf systems" with thin wires coming straight out of the cabinet. HTiB speakers have that too.

 

[erted]

Well, this tread caught fire I see

Thank you all for your comments.

The Chord Mojo is, as I have read, an excellent piece of gear. The only problem is, that at 500eur, it is waaay beyond my budget and what I'd like to spend to power a midrange headphone and ancient mystery speakers that might not even work for all I know. Another thing is that, as I mentioned, I do the majority of my listening using headphones in a bedroom. Massive passive speakers with a dedicated amp sounds more like a living room scenario to me.

For the bedroom, I could probably get away with a pair of small desktop monitors or even by using my guitar amp as a speaker. The latter is not the most elegant option, but it would suffice.

Currently, I have my eyes on a used NuForce UDH-100 that I can get for 240eur. Sounds like a good deal to me. As I understand it, I could use the UDH-100 as a DAC / preamp and adding an amp would be sufficient for any passive speakers. That is, if I ever progress to a living room

 

[Music Alchemist]

Well, this tread caught fire I see

Thank you all for your comments.

The Chord Mojo is, as I have read, an excellent piece of gear. The only problem is, that at 500eur, it is waaay beyond my budget and what I'd like to spend to power a midrange headphone and ancient mystery speakers that might not even work for all I know. Another thing is that, as I mentioned, I do the majority of my listening using headphones in a bedroom. Massive passive speakers with a dedicated amp sounds more like a living room scenario to me.

For the bedroom, I could probably get away with a pair of small desktop monitors or even by using my guitar amp as a speaker. The latter is not the most elegant option, but it would suffice.

Currently, I have my eyes on a used NuForce UDH-100 that I can get for 240eur. Sounds like a good deal to me. As I understand it, I could use the UDH-100 as a DAC / preamp and adding an amp would be sufficient for any passive speakers. That is, if I ever progress to a living room

The Mojo is available used for $400 or less. But since your speakers seem to have bare wire coming out the back, it would be too much trouble to get the cable right. (Plus a used one may still be too pricey for you.) I use my own Mojo as a DAC / digital preamp with active speakers via a 3.5 mm to dual XLR cable.

As someone else mentioned, another option is to get a vintage receiver, which can drive speakers from the speaker taps and headphones from the headphone output. (You can also drive headphones from the speaker taps with the right cables, etc.) Many are available on eBay for under $100. (I owned a Kenwood KR-720 recently.)

If you go that route, you could get a separate dedicated DAC. (Or you could even start out by connecting the headphone output of a computer to the inputs on the back of the receiver via a 3.5 mm to RCA cable.) A few DACs I like that are more affordable than the Mojo include the Schiit Modi Multibit, JDS Labs OL DAC, and Schiit Fulla 2 (which can be used in all sorts of ways...DAC/headphone amp, DAC/preamp, DAC, or just headphone amp).

 

[erted]

Well, I did a bit of looking around and can't find the Mojo here in Europe for less than ~450 eur.

I think my best bet would be to get the UHD-100 and a set of cheap powered monitors, like the ones ProtegeManiac recommended. I might experiment with passive speakers and dedicated amps when I'm old

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Another thing is that, as I mentioned, I do the majority of my listening using headphones in a bedroom. Massive passive speakers with a dedicated amp sounds more like a living room scenario to me.

It's less of what type of room and how large the room is and what type of speakers. You can use nearfield studio monitors with relatively large 6in midwoofers like the KRK Rokit 6 for example. That's about the limit though - anything larger and they have to force the tweeter to go lower as larger drivers can't move fast enough with low distortion levels and reasonable sensitivity to reproduce higher frequencies, or you get a 3-way unit which increases the distance you have to sit from them.

Currently, I have my eyes on a used NuForce UDH-100 that I can get for 240eur. Sounds like a good deal to me. As I understand it, I could use the UDH-100 as a DAC / preamp and adding an amp would be sufficient for any passive speakers. That is, if I ever progress to a living room

Just make sure it does have a preamp function, ie the RCA outputs take the signal from the signal that still runs through the potentiometer, rather than direct from the DAC chip's output stage.

I might experiment with passive speakers and dedicated amps when I'm old

More of "when you get a new house with a room you can use as a music room." It has to be a bit larger to image a bigger soundstage in front of you, and you need to sit farther, plus no obstacles, you have acoustic treatment on the walls close to the speakers or your seat, etc.

 

[erted]

Well, here's a short update. I managed to get the mystery speakers up and running - I made a "DIY" amplifier, by stripping down a pair of PC speakers I had lying around (these are crap, no better than the integrated laptop speakers). Nothing elegant or permeant, but at least I know the monitors are working.

The sound is interesting. It's fairly clear, with crisp treble and very strong mids but I find the bass is lacking to my taste - the sound seems kind of thin, hollow, there's no mass to it. It's possible I'm just spoiled though, using my closed headphones and my other speaker set (some Logitech 2.1 contraption). It's worth mentioning they're running off of a pair of dollar store speakers or rather the amp built into them, so that might be a factor in the sound quality.

Another thing I noticed is the sound seems to improve somewhat if I go further away from the speakers, which might be a problem, as I'd use these as computer speakers. The room I'm in is about 3m by 5m (about 10ft by 16ft) and, because it's on the top floor of the house, the roof / ceiling is slanted.

So the way I see it, I've got two options. I could either keep using these mystery speakers and get a small, cheap amp (for around 100-150eur, something along the lines of the SMSL A2) I could use in combination with my NuForce and hope the sound improves somewhat (maybe invest in a new pair down the line). The other option is to get a set of active nearfield speakers / dedicated computer speakers like for example:

http://www.edifier.com/int/en/speakers/s530d-2.1-subwoofer (I can get these used for around 140eur)

http://mackie.com/products/cr-series (the 4" version)

I just want to have RCA inputs (red and white) so I can connect the speakers to the NuForce.

Bear in mind I'd use the speakers as PC speakers (my laptop doesn't really to games, so music and sometimes movies) in a small room with a desktop configuration.

Any suggestions?
Thanks

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well, here's a short update. I managed to get the mystery speakers up and running - I made a "DIY" amplifier, by stripping down a pair of PC speakers I had lying around (these are crap, no better than the integrated laptop speakers). Nothing elegant or permeant, but at least I know the monitors are working.

The sound is interesting. It's fairly clear, with crisp treble and very strong mids but I find the bass is lacking to my taste - the sound seems kind of thin, hollow, there's no mass to it. It's possible I'm just spoiled though, using my closed headphones and my other speaker set (some Logitech 2.1 contraption). It's worth mentioning they're running off of a pair of dollar store speakers or rather the amp built into them, so that might be a factor in the sound quality.

Closed headphone has isolation vs the ambient noise in the room, and your 2.1 speakers have a ".1" to it (ie the sub). And then there's the likely 1w amp (that isn't exactly on First Watt levels of distortion and noise at 1w, much less current delivery) driving it for now. The last bit affects the actual performance while the first two are advantages to what you have as reference.

Another thing I noticed is the sound seems to improve somewhat if I go further away from the speakers, which might be a problem, as I'd use these as computer speakers.

First problem there is that you're probably having time alignment issues - there's enough of a difference in distance from your ears to the tweeter vs to the midwoofer (worse if it's a 3-way). This is why pro monitors have some way to mount other than just resting on a surface, so they can be mounted on the wall and likely with some point i nthe middle of both speakers at ear level. Alternately, some mount them higher then angled down - that angle puts the tweeters' and midwoofers' distance to the listener's head close to identical. Others who don't use such mounting hardware use angled stands like what Audioengine sells so they just sit on the desk angled upward, and similarly, some consumer powered speakers like some Edifiers have angled front baffles.

Then there's the problem that they likely were really not voiced for use at that short distance.

The room I'm in is about 3m by 5m (about 10ft by 16ft) and, because it's on the top floor of the house, the roof / ceiling is slanted.

Try and set it up so the slanted ceiling is to the back of the speakers so at least they'd have the two channels working off as identical a room shape as possible, and then line the rear wall/ceiling and some of the sides with some acoustic treatments.

So the way I see it, I've got two options. I could either keep using these mystery speakers and get a small, cheap amp (for around 100-150eur, something along the lines of the SMSL A2) I could use in combination with my NuForce and hope the sound improves somewhat (maybe invest in a new pair down the line). The other option is to get a set of active nearfield speakers / dedicated computer speakers like for example:

http://www.edifier.com/int/en/speakers/s530d-2.1-subwoofer (I can get these used for around 140eur)

http://mackie.com/products/cr-series (the 4" version)

I just want to have RCA inputs (red and white) so I can connect the speakers to the NuForce.

Bear in mind I'd use the speakers as PC speakers (my laptop doesn't really to games, so music and sometimes movies) in a small room with a desktop configuration.

Alternately you can just hunt down a pure power amp for local pick up, might be cheaper (it's really the shipping that will kill you buying these things).

However considering those speakers aren't really the best for the application you need them for (or anything, really), might as well try the powered speakers first. And try to get some kind of angled stand for them if they'll be at arm's height on your desk.

 

[erted]

Closed headphone has isolation vs the ambient noise in the room, and your 2.1 speakers have a ".1" to it (ie the sub). And then there's the likely 1w amp (that isn't exactly on First Watt levels of distortion and noise at 1w, much less current delivery) driving it for now. The last bit affects the actual performance while the first two are advantages to what you have as reference.

Yes, I expected something like this. Regardless, the more I listen, the more I like them. I find the detail is especially good in my novice opinion. It might just be that the "amp" I'm using now isn't powering the three speakers inside the monitor evenly, resulting in a hollow sound with a lack of punch.

First problem there is that you're probably having time alignment issues - there's enough of a difference in distance from your ears to the tweeter vs to the midwoofer (worse if it's a 3-way). This is why pro monitors have some way to mount other than just resting on a surface, so they can be mounted on the wall and likely with some point i nthe middle of both speakers at ear level. Alternately, some mount them higher then angled down - that angle puts the tweeters' and midwoofers' distance to the listener's head close to identical. Others who don't use such mounting hardware use angled stands like what Audioengine sells so they just sit on the desk angled upward, and similarly, some consumer powered speakers like some Edifiers have angled front baffles.

Then there's the problem that they likely were really not voiced for use at that short distance.

Try and set it up so the slanted ceiling is to the back of the speakers so at least they'd have the two channels working off as identical a room shape as possible, and then line the rear wall/ceiling and some of the sides with some acoustic treatments.

Unfortunatley, the layout of my room is limiting my options. I drew the layout in AutoCAD as shown below:

https://ibb.co/dWEoqQ

Consider the slant goes form left to right, so from the doors towards the desk (the reason why the desk and furniture are so far away from the right wall). I imagine putting them on my desk would be a bad idea.

If I'm sitting at my desk, the sound is a bit harsh, however, if I go to my bed it clears up a bit, though the differences are minimal.

Alternately you can just hunt down a pure power amp for local pick up, might be cheaper (it's really the shipping that will kill you buying these things).

However considering those speakers aren't really the best for the application you need them for (or anything, really), might as well try the powered speakers first. And try to get some kind of angled stand for them if they'll be at arm's height on your desk.

Any suggestions from the top of your head?

Also, regarding the mystery monitors, I spoke with my dad about them. Turns out they're double the age I thought they are - some 35 - 40 years old. Here are some pictures:

Front: https://ibb.co/fJ6q4k

Back: https://ibb.co/kZOgAQ

Internals: https://ibb.co/d4zXH5

The dimensions so 18 cm / 7.1 inches (depth) x 22 cm / 8.7 inches (with) x 40 cm / 15.7 inches (height). As you can see, there are three speakers with approximate diameters of 4.5 cm / 1.8 inches, 9 cm / 3.5 inches and 14.5 cm / 5.7 inches. The insulation (that yellowish stuff) appears to be a slab of mineral wool, about 5 cm / 2 inches thick. Ah, good old german engineering.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Unfortunatley, the layout of my room is limiting my options. I drew the layout in AutoCAD as shown below:

https://ibb.co/dWEoqQ

Consider the slant goes form left to right, so from the doors towards the desk (the reason why the desk and furniture are so far away from the right wall). I imagine putting them on my desk would be a bad idea.

Those speakers maybe, but if you had real nearfield monitors it will be a lot less of a problem. For one, they're voiced for nearfield use. At the same time, that allows for less room interaction since you're making them effectively operate in a smaller space. On top of that, the room slant will be more or less equal since the low part of the ceiling/wall will be to the back of both speakers than to the flank of just one of them.

Any suggestions from the top of your head?

Also, regarding the mystery monitors, I spoke with my dad about them. Turns out they're double the age I thought they are - some 35 - 40 years old. Here are some pictures:

Front: https://ibb.co/fJ6q4k

Back: https://ibb.co/kZOgAQ

Internals: https://ibb.co/d4zXH5

The dimensions so 18 cm / 7.1 inches (depth) x 22 cm / 8.7 inches (with) x 40 cm / 15.7 inches (height). As you can see, there are three speakers with approximate diameters of 4.5 cm / 1.8 inches, 9 cm / 3.5 inches and 14.5 cm / 5.7 inches. The insulation (that yellowish stuff) appears to be a slab of mineral wool, about 5 cm / 2 inches thick. Ah, good old german engineering.

Try them on your desk. If you can live with the sound then save your money. Otherwise, having to buy an amp just to see if it will work better on mystery speakers which for all we know won't be much better with another amp plus aren't really designed for nearfield use, you're better off just buying powered desktop monitors.

Not to mention that, given the age of those speakers, if you buy a new amp, you're not really sure how much longer they'll function. And they might have been made before some laws were in place, so for all you know the dampening material inside could be a carcinogen.

 

[erted]

Try them on your desk. If you can live with the sound then save your money. Otherwise, having to buy an amp just to see if it will work better on mystery speakers which for all we know won't be much better with another amp plus aren't really designed for nearfield use, you're better off just buying powered desktop monitors.

Not to mention that, given the age of those speakers, if you buy a new amp, you're not really sure how much longer they'll function. And they might have been made before some laws were in place, so for all you know the dampening material inside could be a carcinogen.

I could try but I don't think I would consider this a permeant setup as they're too big and would take up too much space on my desk.

I think that if I were to continue using these speakers I would definitely need to invest in a proper amp. The temporary experimental "setup" I currently have makes me nervous with its exposed wires and transformer (OK, I could sort that out with some insulation and a case) but the bigger problem is there's a lot of humming noise the amp produces. Not to mention, the cable with the 3.5mm jack that goes into my laptop is very sensitive and sends everything into "rumble mode" if I bump it.

Like I said, in the event of getting an amp, I'd get some new speakers at some point.

I am, however leaning more towards simple, smaller powered speakers I could put on my desk. I think they'd suit my setup and needs better and would end up costing me less. Any ideas as to how the ones I linked (Mackie CR3 / CR4 and those 2.1 Edifiers) compare? I'm not entirely sure I'd need a subwoofer - I have the sub on my 2.1 Logitech speakers set to around 5 - 10%. Just enough to add some mass to the sound but without booming to the point everything, including my eyeballs begin to rattle.

Thanks

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I could try but I don't think I would consider this a permeant setup as they're too big and would take up too much space on my desk.

I think that if I were to continue using these speakers I would definitely need to invest in a proper amp. The temporary experimental "setup" I currently have makes me nervous with its exposed wires and transformer (OK, I could sort that out with some insulation and a case) but the bigger problem is there's a lot of humming noise the amp produces. Not to mention, the cable with the 3.5mm jack that goes into my laptop is very sensitive and sends everything into "rumble mode" if I bump it.

With all those problems you might as well skip those speaekrs.

Like I said, in the event of getting an amp, I'd get some new speakers at some point.

If you spend on the amp you'd just basically have to get passive speakers later just to use them. Might as well get the small powered desktop speakers from the start.

I am, however leaning more towards simple, smaller powered speakers I could put on my desk. I think they'd suit my setup and needs better and would end up costing me less. Any ideas as to how the ones I linked (Mackie CR3 / CR4 and those 2.1 Edifiers) compare? I'm not entirely sure I'd need a subwoofer - I have the sub on my 2.1 Logitech speakers set to around 5 - 10%. Just enough to add some mass to the sound but without booming to the point everything, including my eyeballs begin to rattle.

Most 2.1 computer speakers have subwoofers that are relatively tiny - if you get powered speakers with 5in or larger midwoofers then the only advantage of a cheap 5in subwoofer in terms of reproducing bass is that the enclosure is usually designed to squeeze more bass freqs and dBs out of the driver. That usually comes at the cost of higher distortion. If you get a powered monitor with 5in or larger drivers you'd still get enough bass but none of the crawling, really loud bass, and if you set the gain on a sub that low anyway, will likely be enough bass for you.

 

[erted]

So you would recommend something along the lines of the Mackie CR4?
Just as a note, the Edifiers I linked have an 8" subwoofer. The whole set is also a lot more expensive (240eur compared to 140eur of the Mackies, but I can get the Edifiers used for 140 ish)

I can't seem to find many examples of monitors in the 100 - 150eur price range I'm in. Not "multimedia" monitors anyway, there's plenty of proper studio stuff, but seeing as I don't have an interface I don't really know how I'd connect these to my laptop.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So you would recommend something along the lines of the Mackie CR4?

Pretty much.

Just as a note, the Edifiers I linked have an 8" subwoofer. The whole set is also a lot more expensive (240eur compared to 140eur of the Mackies, but I can get the Edifiers used for 140 ish)

I was referring more to the other 2.1's you used. As it is, since you don't like their distorted ouput, chances are you can enjoy the bass on larger 2.0 speakers. Not to mention they won't require you to find a proper position for the subwoofer on that small desk.

I can't seem to find many examples of monitors in the 100 - 150eur price range I'm in. Not "multimedia" monitors anyway, there's plenty of proper studio stuff, but seeing as I don't have an interface I don't really know how I'd connect these to my laptop.

You have the UDH100 right? Get an RCA to XLR cable. Although in some cases this might make for some audible noise for whatever reason, which is why getting a mutlimedia speaker like the Edifier 1010BT or 1280BT which have RCA inputs will simplify what you're trying to do.

 

[erted]

Thank you for your recommendations. I think I'll go the "easy" route and go with multimedia speakers. I was looking at something like the Yamaha HS 5 or JBL LSR 305 but at around 140eur per monitor, if I wanted two of them that's 280eur + all the cables + two power plugs. A bit daunting to me, unless you can get away with just using one monitor.

Otherwise, I think the Edifier R1280T or Mackie CR4 would be a good choice for me.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Thank you for your recommendations. I think I'll go the "easy" route and go with multimedia speakers. I was looking at something like the Yamaha HS 5 or JBL LSR 305 but at around 140eur per monitor, if I wanted two of them that's 280eur + all the cables + two power plugs. A bit daunting to me, unless you can get away with just using one monitor.

Otherwise, I think the Edifier R1280T or Mackie CR4 would be a good choice for me.

I got my LSR305s for $250 brand new on eBay and they sound far more realistic to me than any headphone. (The dealer I bought from included aftermarket cables, but they already come with power cables, unless you need longer ones.) But I'm using them on speaker stands (Samson MS200) and have them set up in a specific way. Here is a photo I took of the most recent configuration.

Here's a tip: For controlling the volume of the speakers, active preamps and the amps in many DAC/amps can color the sound significantly compared to passive preamps (no electronics) and digital preamps (such as the ones used in Chord DAC/amps).