[rebelinho]

Hi there
 
I've bought a Takstar Pro80 and a Fiio E11 a few months ago, and I'm loving them. Perfect comfort, great sound, etc. The thing is I moved to another city, and during the packing I found an almost 40 year old stereo system (http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/unknown_wagner_eg4543.html), and decided to use it as an amplifier and speaker unit to improve the sh!tty sounding TV. All went better than my expectation (please remember the 40 year spec), the sound was engaging, and the radio worked fairly good too.
 
One day I had the idea of using that same stereo system with my computer and the Pro80, and I became speechless. It had a whole lot of power I didn't knew possible, and the sound was excellent both in punch and detail. But with the more detailed sound some problems came around, with the biggest one being the faulty connections on the stereo system that create a very annoying background noise. 
 
This experience made me think that I can be enjoying my music much more if I get a better amp than the E11, more powerful at least, and a DAC (the standard laptop sound is rubbish, in such a way that un-EQ'd mids and vocals sound like a fork scratching a frying pan). 
 
Size is not a problem, neither is the power type (usb or AC). Will only be used to power headphones. Input should be usb. After a week long search I came to these options:
 
- FiiO E10K (I've read that it is too sterile sounding, and I like my bass to be there)
- SMSL M2 (I can't believe such a small thing can be more powerful than the E11)
- Topping D1 MKII (same as M2)
- Topping TP30 MKII (it seems the headphone out is quite bad, can someone confirm that please? more like a speaker amp)
- SMSL SAD-25 (can't find much about this one)
 
Any help will be much appreciated

 

[pavinjoseph]

Hi rebelinho,
 
I got my E10K today and I like it after an hour or so of casual listening. The DAC is pretty good since my laptop's onboard sound card is pretty much trash. Before, this I had an E11. Compared to the E11, the E10K has definitely better SQ and less noise, but I think E11 had a better soundstage and I actually liked the warmer sound of E11 and most importantly the E11 had a 2-step bass boost while the E10K has only a single step bass boost (OFF is too low for me and ON is just too much !!).
 
Since you already have the E11 (I replaced mine with the E10K),maybe you can pair it with the E10K

 

[PurpleAngel]

  Hi there
 
I've bought a Takstar Pro80 and a Fiio E11 a few months ago, and I'm loving them. Perfect comfort, great sound, etc. The thing is I moved to another city, and during the packing I found an almost 40 year old stereo system (http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/unknown_wagner_eg4543.html), and decided to use it as an amplifier and speaker unit to improve the sh!tty sounding TV. All went better than my expectation (please remember the 40 year spec), the sound was engaging, and the radio worked fairly good too.
One day I had the idea of using that same stereo system with my computer and the Pro80, and I became speechless. It had a whole lot of power I didn't knew possible, and the sound was excellent both in punch and detail. But with the more detailed sound some problems came around, with the biggest one being the faulty connections on the stereo system that create a very annoying background noise. 
This experience made me think that I can be enjoying my music much more if I get a better amp than the E11, more powerful at least, and a DAC (the standard laptop sound is rubbish, in such a way that un-EQ'd mids and vocals sound like a fork scratching a frying pan). 
Size is not a problem, neither is the power type (usb or AC). Will only be used to power headphones. Input should be usb. After a week long search I came to these options:
- FiiO E10K (I've read that it is too sterile sounding, and I like my bass to be there)
- SMSL M2 (I can't believe such a small thing can be more powerful than the E11)
- Topping D1 MKII (same as M2)
- Topping TP30 MKII (it seems the headphone out is quite bad, can someone confirm that please? more like a speaker amp)
- SMSL SAD-25 (can't find much about this one)
Any help will be much appreciated

 
Have you thought about just putting a DAC between your computer and the E11?
The E11 can easily drive the 60-Ohm Takstar Pro 80s, can't see a good reason for replacing the E11.
 
Hifimediy U2 USB DAC, $57+shipping
http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/U2-DAC
 
Or if you want to save a few dollars
ELE DL-E01 USB DAC, $14.95
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290908894610?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
Or if you just want to, buy the Fiio E10k and sell off the E11.

 

[rebelinho]

  Hi rebelinho,
 
I got my E10K today and I like it after an hour or so of casual listening. The DAC is pretty good since my laptop's onboard sound card is pretty much trash. Before, this I had an E11. Compared to the E11, the E10K has definitely better SQ and less noise, but I think E11 had a better soundstage and I actually liked the warmer sound of E11 and most importantly the E11 had a 2-step bass boost while the E10K has only a single step bass boost (OFF is too low for me and ON is just too much !!).
 
Since you already have the E11 (I replaced mine with the E10K),maybe you can pair it with the E10K

 
Right now I'm using the E11 more with my android phone, to listen to music during a 5 hour train trip I have to do between my parents house and university. Since the train makes a lot of noise I don't care much about SQ, since it would be pointless. This was the only reason for which I didn't buy the E17. What I'm saying is: I don't mind the E11, and the sound is indeed quite good, but at home I would like to get better SQ. And maybe, just maybe, the E10K with bass ON could fulfill my needs just right, because with the E11 I miss the fantastic punch (just punch, not quantity. It just goes really LOW) of the big old stereo system.
 
One more thing: I suppose if I use the E10K+E11 the power output would be the same as using the E11 alone? The E10K would just be a DAC, am I right?
 

   
Have you thought about just putting a DAC between your computer and the E11?
The E11 can easily drive the 60-Ohm Takstar Pro 80s, can't see a good reason for replacing the E11.
 
Hifimediy U2 USB DAC, $57+shipping
http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/U2-DAC
 
Or if you want to save a few dollars
ELE DL-E01 USB DAC, $14.95
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290908894610?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
Or if you just want to, buy the Fiio E10k and sell off the E11.

 
Even the computer alone can drive the Pro80 to deafening levels. TBH with the E11 the difference isn't that much.
 
About those two. I've read a lot of good stuff regarding the Sabre, so the U2 should be at least as good. The Sabre 2 unfortunately is out of option due to the lack of usb input. And fortunately I am financially well enough to be looking for this kind of stuff, so the ELE isn't needed (I'm assuming the other DACs are better).
 
So, regarding the DAC only, which is better? E10K or Hifimediy Sabre? The Toppings are out, the SAD-25 too, so it's between the E10K, Sabre, M2 and anything that might come up.

 

[pavinjoseph]

 
So, regarding the DAC only, which is better? E10K or Hifimediy Sabre? 

 
The E10K trumps the Sabre in every possible way I can think of !! Combine it with your E11 and you're going to be in for a treat 

 

[rebelinho]

 
The E10K trumps the Sabre in every possible way I can think of !! Combine it with your E11 and you're going to be in for a treat 

 
So, from what you're saying, the E11 is a better amp than the E10K? At least the bass settings yeah, they are better....
 
The problem with using the E11 as a desktop amp is the "while charging, no partying". Not a complete put off thing, but certainly important.
 
According to this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGmeJWtd-2I the M2 is better than the E10K. Just... better. Any thoughts?

 

[PurpleAngel]

Even the computer alone can drive the Pro80 to deafening levels. TBH with the E11 the difference isn't that much. About those two. I've read a lot of good stuff regarding the Sabre, so the U2 should be at least as good. The Sabre 2 unfortunately is out of option due to the lack of usb input. And fortunately I am financially well enough to be looking for this kind of stuff, so the ELE isn't needed (I'm assuming the other DACs are better).
So, regarding the DAC only, which is better? E10K or Hifimediy Sabre? The Toppings are out, the SAD-25 too, so it's between the E10K, Sabre, M2 and anything that might come up.

 
The Sabre 2 uses an USB input, just like the FiiO E10K.
I would assume the Sabre DAC chip used in the Sabre U2 is better then the WM8740 DAC chip used in the E10K.
With the Sabre 2, you would want to daisy chain it with the E11, where as with the E10K you would not need the E11, as the e10K has it's own amplifier.

 

[rebelinho]

   
The Sabre 2 uses an USB input, just like the FiiO E10K.
I would assume the Sabre DAC chip used in the Sabre 2 is better then the WM8740 DAC chip used in the E10K.
With the Sabre 2, you would want to daisy chain it with the E11, where as with the E10K you would not need the E11, as the e10K has it's own amplifier.

 
yes, you're right. I've made a mistake, I was talking about this one: http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/spdif-dac-110V the Sabre 2 is too big just for a DAC, so I'm not interested.
 
Edit: it seems like the Sabre 2 now includes a headphone amp. I'll try to find more info

 

[SSSN]

   
The Sabre 2 uses an USB input, just like the FiiO E10K.
I would assume the Sabre DAC chip used in the Sabre 2 is better then the WM8740 DAC chip used in the E10K.
With the Sabre 2, you would want to daisy chain it with the E11, where as with the E10K you would not need the E11, as the e10K has it's own amplifier.

The E10K does not use the WM8740 anymore, but the PCM5102

 

[cel4145]

I think your expectations may be budget challenged.

I don't think $100 for a DAC/amp is likely to get you significantly more power in a headphone amp than the E11. For instance, based upon specs published by FiiO, the E10K might only give you a few more db of volume over the E11, if any at all.

My recommendation would be to buy in stages. Use your current cash to buy a good DAC; replace the E11 later on. Or get a better headphone amp now.

I would try an experiment first. Get an RCA to 3.5mm cable. Hook your E11 up to the tape out or some other analog out on your stereo. Does the E11 seem to have more power then and better sound? It might because a stereo receiver line output can be better for amplification by an external amp than that out of a laptop or phone headphone jack. Similarly, a good DAC would have better line output as well, in addition to providing better SQ.

 

[PurpleAngel]

 
The E10K does not use the WM8740 anymore, but the PCM5102

 
Oops, your right, thanks for straightening my facts.

 

[cel4145]

BTW: I just looked up the specs of the SMSL M2. It does not appear to have more power than the E11 (might even be less).

 

[rebelinho]

1- I think your expectations may be budget challenged.

2- I don't think $100 for a DAC/amp is likely to get you significantly more power in a headphone amp than the E11. For instance, based upon specs published by FiiO, the E10K might only give you a few more db of volume over the E11, if any at all.

3- My recommendation would be to buy in stages. Use your current cash to buy a good DAC; replace the E11 later on. Or get a better headphone amp now.

4- I would try an experiment first. Get an RCA to 3.5mm cable. Hook your E11 up to the tape out or some other analog out on your stereo. Does the E11 seem to have more power then and better sound? It might because a stereo line output can be better for amplification by an external amp than that out of a laptop or phone headphone jack. Similarly, a good DAC would have better line output as well, in addition to providing better SQ.

 
1- What can I say, I'm always up to a challenge 

 
2- Again, if it was easy everybody could do it. But I get your point
 
3- I've had that stage. A E09K now (even though it looks painfully ugly with that dock opening), or other powerful amp, then a DAC. I reckon a cheaper DAC like the Sabre is enough, I've been listening to music for years from my Nokia brick phone, then the laptop, and I've always enjoyed it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is a bigger scalling in amping than in DACing
 
4- Let me see if I got it right: laptop -> stereo system -> E11 -> 'phones? 

 

[cel4145]

3- I've had that stage. A E09K now (even though it looks painfully ugly with that dock opening), or other powerful amp, then a DAC. I reckon a cheaper DAC like the Sabre is enough, I've been listening to music for years from my Nokia brick phone, then the laptop, and I've always enjoyed it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is a bigger scalling in amping than in DACing

I don't think you will find a more powerful amp than the E09K with a DAC, too, for under $100. I don't think you can find a portable amp that has anywhere near the power output of the E09K without getting something even more expensive than the E09K.

Also, with any cheaper DACs, you should check the line level output. This was one of the criticisms of the E10 that was improved with the E10K.

If you don't need a portable DAC, get a Schiit Modi.

4- Let me see if I got it right: laptop -> stereo system -> E11 -> 'phones? 

Right. if you have the cable, I would try it. Easy experiment.

 

[rebelinho]

If you don't need a portable DAC, get a Schiit Modi.

 
That is a bit more expensive... probably only next year. but if I were to get that one the Magni would be the best amp to match it right? Either way I probably wont get it, shipping is at least 50$, so it is out of option. 
 
So talking about more options. I'm leaning towards getting a budget DAC (again, the Sabre is a nice option) and a more powerful amp to crank up the sound. E09K (120$), Magni (130$), O2 (150$), SMSL sApII Pro (65$) are on the front line, as well as the SMSL M2 (65$) and Sabre (45$) for the DAC.
 
After a search, and seeing this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSWXAqzNzAQ (skip to 4 min) I'm between the E09K and the sApII. I understand that the E09K is fabulous, but it is TWICE the price. and I like to buy cheap stuff which does stuff just like the expensive stuff.
 
In summary, my amp quest is almost set. Any more ideas regarding DACs, specially cheap (but good) ones?