[TheAttorney]

  Im guessing it might be because of the tubes (not the ones Justin provides) 

 
That was my BHSE with the vintage xf2 tubes.
 
I found it difficult to get a handle on the listening comparisons because Jonesy's system sounded different to mine back home.  Without judging which is right or wrong, and dumbing down the language for brevity, I'd class his system as more "digital" and mine as more "analogue".  That fundamental difference made it hard for me to follow what Jonesy was describing about the volume issues.
 
That and the fact that Jonesy listens WAY louder than I do.  To quantify that, my BHSE's volume is usually set between 11 and 11:30 o'clock. With a lowly 1v SE output from my Nagra CDC, that equates to around 75-80db peak in my 007s - the point at which the music  "wakes up" and becomes immersive. Because I already have very mild tinnitus, I rarely go beyond that kind of volume for safety's sake. 
 
Jonesy's Chord DAC is spec'd at 6v output on balanced. And with the 009s being more efficient than the 007s, I would have expected the BHSE's volume to be set somewhere around 9 -10 o'clock to get my usual dba range. But we were listening at between 10 and 12 as start point and up to what looked like 2pm at the loudest - Jonesy alone at those higher settings. 
 
At the volumes I listened at, I didn't really notice the BHSE running out of steam on anything. All I kept noticing was that it was not sounding like it did back home. And that on the basis of this particular mini meet, there was no pressing SQ reason to get the BHSE over the Wee. Which just goes to show something - what exactly I'm not sure.
 
One thing I'm guessing though, if you're out to recreate the bass slam of big speakers, or even dynamic headphones, then I'm not sure that a 009 (or most electrostatics) is the right direction - it's strength's lie elsewehere. I do think it has excellent bass, but it's very clean and a touch light.

 

[Hun7er]

It's electrostatic after all. Membranes are very thin and can't handle heavy bass. I think electrostatic are more suited to free fatiguing sound, liquid, smooth, elegant.
 
One question for Sigma Lover. I have my Sigma 404 with these earpads http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/65/65a36794_S7000127.JPG and I want the same for my Sigma Nova.
It is these pads https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-ep-507-leather-earpad.html ?

 

[arnaud]

  It's electrostatic after all. Membranes are very thin and can't handle heavy bass. I think electrostatic are more suited to free fatiguing sound, liquid, smooth, elegant.
 

 
Try a realiser or OOYH software and a movie with some bass and comment back.
 
Then there is quantity and quality, I take quality any day of the week...
 
Arnaud

 

[Hun7er]

What is this software ?

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

   
That was my BHSE with the vintage xf2 tubes.
 
I found it difficult to get a handle on the listening comparisons because Jonesy's system sounded different to mine back home.  Without judging which is right or wrong, and dumbing down the language for brevity, I'd class his system as more "digital" and mine as more "analogue".  That fundamental difference made it hard for me to follow what Jonesy was describing about the volume issues.
 
That and the fact that Jonesy listens WAY louder than I do.  To quantify that, my BHSE's volume is usually set between 11 and 11:30 o'clock. With a lowly 1v SE output from my Nagra CDC, that equates to around 75-80db peak in my 007s - the point at which the music  "wakes up" and becomes immersive. Because I already have very mild tinnitus, I rarely go beyond that kind of volume for safety's sake. 
 
Jonesy's Chord DAC is spec'd at 6v output on balanced. And with the 009s being more efficient than the 007s, I would have expected the BHSE's volume to be set somewhere around 9 -10 o'clock to get my usual dba range. But we were listening at between 10 and 12 as start point and up to what looked like 2pm at the loudest - Jonesy alone at those higher settings. 
 
At the volumes I listened at, I didn't really notice the BHSE running out of steam on anything. All I kept noticing was that it was not sounding like it did back home. And that on the basis of this particular mini meet, there was no pressing SQ reason to get the BHSE over the Wee. Which just goes to show something - what exactly I'm not sure.
 
One thing I'm guessing though, if you're out to recreate the bass slam of big speakers, or even dynamic headphones, then I'm not sure that a 009 (or most electrostatics) is the right direction - it's strength's lie elsewehere. I do think it has excellent bass, but it's very clean and a touch light.

It wasn't just the lack of higher loudness I noticed.   The music sounded flat and lifeless and boring on recordings I know very well as being very energetic and life-like (one was the David Gilmore live concert in Gdansk) and have played them on many systems many times using the same DAC (Chord QBD76) and cheaper DAC's.   The DAC was also balanced connected to the BHSE.
 
When we swapped to single ended the volume level was even lower i.e. I had to turn the BHSE up to nearly max to get any respectable sound level and the music was even flatter and lifeless than in balanced mode. 
 
Last night I was listening to the same tracks (CD red book 44kHz quality) with the 009's through the Wee linked up to the same DAC which is linked to the Chord Cyan Click integrated amp and the music was not louder (was happy at 30% volume level) but was far more energetic with great bass slam, detail, separation of instruments etc. (a very pleasurable listening experience indeed) although it wasn't as spacious sounding as the BHSE it was still very good. 
 
I also know that the Chord QBD76 is a quality DAC…in fact its one of the best for its price !    Chord Electronics is famous for its DAC's i.e. Qute, Hugo, QBD76 etc. !   I was also surprised that the QBD76 sounded digital through the BHSE… normally it is more analogue sounding…for a DAC…not to compare with a turntable…although when it is linked to a Chord Blu transporter it sounds amazing and very analogue sounding !     
 
Of course there are bette DAC's on the market costing many more $1,000's but Im sure the QBD76 is good enough for the BHSE !     
 
My current thought's on the BHSE are….
1) Do all the BHSSE's sound like TheAttorney's….if they do then Im seriously thinking of cancelling my order as I would expect something costing $6,000 + would sound a lot better than what I heard !
2) If they don't then Im thinking if it's the vintage tubes TheAttorney is using. 
 
The other thought I have is I have also ordered a HeadAmp GS-X Mk2….just hope this doesn't have the same issues !
 
p.s Thank you TheAttorney for the mini meet.   It was most kind of you to make the offer and great to meet you.   It was great to see a BHSE in person and I must say it looks a stunning piece of equipment…the build quality is very impressive….hence one of the reasons why I want one so much !

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

  It wasn't just the lack of higher loudness I noticed.   The music sounded flat and lifeless and boring on recordings I know very well as being very energetic and life-like (one was the David Gilmore live concert in Gdansk) and have played them on many systems many times using the same DAC (Chord QBD76) and cheaper DAC's.   The DAC was also balanced connected to the BHSE.
 
When we swapped to single ended the volume level was even lower i.e. I had to turn the BHSE up to nearly max to get any respectable sound level and the music was even flatter and lifeless than in balanced mode. 
 
Last night I was listening to the same tracks (CD red book 44kHz quality) with the 009's through the Wee linked up to the same DAC which is linked to the Chord Cyan Click integrated amp and the music was not louder (was happy at 30% volume level) but was far more energetic with great bass slam, detail, separation of instruments etc. (a very pleasurable listening experience indeed) although it wasn't as spacious sounding as the BHSE it was still very good. 
 
I also know that the Chord QBD76 is a quality DAC…in fact its one of the best for its price !    Chord Electronics is famous for its DAC's i.e. Qute, Hugo, QBD76 etc. !   I was also surprised that the QBD76 sounded digital through the BHSE… normally it is more analogue sounding…for a DAC…not to compare with a turntable…although when it is linked to a Chord Blu transporter it sounds amazing and very analogue sounding !     
 
Of course there are bette DAC's on the market costing many more $1,000's but Im sure the QBD76 is good enough for the BHSE !     
 
My current thought's on the BHSE are….
1) Do all the BHSSE's sound like TheAttorney's….if they do then Im seriously thinking of cancelling my order as I would expect something costing $6,000 + would sound a lot better than what I heard !
2) If they don't then Im thinking if it's the vintage tubes TheAttorney is using. 
 
The other thought I have is I have also ordered a HeadAmp GS-X Mk2….just hope this doesn't have the same issues !
 
p.s Thank you TheAttorney for the mini meet.   It was most kind of you to make the offer and great to meet you.   It was great to see a BHSE in person and I must say it looks a stunning piece of equipment…the build quality is very impressive….hence one of the reasons why I want one so much !

Sorry  the sentence I just wrote in above post "linked to the Chord Cyan Click integrated amp and the music was not louder"  should read "was louder" i.e. higher volume levels were attained and not "was not louder"  

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

  It's electrostatic after all. Membranes are very thin and can't handle heavy bass. I think electrostatic are more suited to free fatiguing sound, liquid, smooth, elegant.
 
One question for Sigma Lover. I have my Sigma 404 with these earpads http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/65/65a36794_S7000127.JPG and I want the same for my Sigma Nova.
It is these pads https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-ep-507-leather-earpad.html ?

Hi Hun7er,
Im getting plenty of deep low bass with clear excellent slam with my 009's linked to my Wee  with recordings that have bass that is !  
 
Tracks I have been listening to with the Stax 009's and Wee that have low frequency bass and good bass slam from London Grammar, Beck, Jill Scott, Pink Floyd, David Gilmore, Led Zepp etc. the bass sounds great plus having good separation and soundstage !  
 
The 009's can go down to very low frequencies if the recording has it and the HiFi equipment can produce it ! 

 

[tev]

  It's electrostatic after all. Membranes are very thin and can't handle heavy bass. I think electrostatic are more suited to free fatiguing sound, liquid, smooth, elegant.
 
One question for Sigma Lover. I have my Sigma 404 with these earpads http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/65/65a36794_S7000127.JPG and I want the same for my Sigma Nova.
It is these pads https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-ep-507-leather-earpad.html ?

The original pads on the Sigma shown on your first link are not the same as the the 507 pads shown on your second link. The 507 have more padding at the base and one side. Their is debate among head-fiers as to whether the current pads sound as good as the originals. However, the current pads are more comfortable. My feeling is that the Sigma's sound is very dependent on positioning (front-to- back of head) and on the tightness of the seal. Everyone's ears are shaped differently, so I would experiment with both pads and select the one that works for you. Let us know how your Sigmas sound on the BHSE. I'm very curious.

 

[TheAttorney]

  It wasn't just the lack of higher loudness I noticed.   The music sounded flat and lifeless and boring on recordings I know very well as being very energetic and life-like (one was the David Gilmore live concert in Gdansk) and have played them on many systems many times using the same DAC (Chord QBD76) and cheaper DAC's.  

 
Yes it did sound a bit flat and lifeless, which combined with a slightly forward tone is what I'd class as a "digital" sound that's not quite working correctly.
I don't have the same track at home, so can't compare as to how it should sound. Like I said before, that's not how my BHSE sounds back home. Too many variables for me to suggest a culprit. The trailing DIY-store sockets in your temporary location wouldn't have helped, but I wouldn't have expected that alone to make so much difference.
 
Based on what I hear at home, and a headfi meet last year, and a trip to highendheadphones a few weeks ago, I don't think there's anything wrong with my BHSE.
There's nothing wrong with the tubes at my normal listening level. And it's sounding fullof life and depth right now on any decent recording. So, bit of a mystery really.

 

[icebear]

... The trailing DIY-store sockets in your temporary location wouldn't have helped, but I wouldn't have expected that alone to make so much difference....

Something very basic : Was the phase correct and the voltage ?
Out of phase and grid voltage at the very low end of specs can easily cause a flat sound, just a thought.

 

[Golfnutz]

  Something very basic : Was the phase correct and the voltage ?
Out of phase and grid voltage at the very low end of specs can easily cause a flat sound, just a thought.

Was thinking the same thing, something to do with the wiring. I also believe Attorney has replaced has stock fuses with audio grade fuses. I wonder if they're directional and that has played a part as well.

 

[TheAttorney]

Not sure if you're pulling my leg about the fuses, but either direction won't explain the disappointing result. I'd put money on the likelihood that the result would have been broadly the same irrespective of tubes, fuses or other tweaks.
 
Anyway, I'm not going to worry about it any more. Sometimes things don't work out as expected, but somehow life goes on )

 

[Golfnutz]

  Not sure if you're pulling my leg about the fuses, but either direction won't explain the disappointing result. I'd put money on the likelihood that the result would have been broadly the same irrespective of tubes, fuses or other tweaks.
 
Anyway, I'm not going to worry about it any more. Sometimes things don't work out as expected, but somehow life goes on )

Nope, wasn't pulling your leg on the directional thing (based of what I've read about audio fuses). I also didn't realize how bad it must have sounded based on these comments you've just posted.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

  Something very basic : Was the phase correct and the voltage ?
Out of phase and grid voltage at the very low end of specs can easily cause a flat sound, just a thought.

Hi icebear,
 
Could be possible although Im using the same power source albeit in a different room with my Woo Wee set up with the same DAC and it doesn't sound flat / lifeless and has plenty of volume and power to it ! 

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

   
Yes it did sound a bit flat and lifeless, which combined with a slightly forward tone is what I'd class as a "digital" sound that's not quite working correctly.
I don't have the same track at home, so can't compare as to how it should sound. Like I said before, that's not how my BHSE sounds back home. Too many variables for me to suggest a culprit. The trailing DIY-store sockets in your temporary location wouldn't have helped, but I wouldn't have expected that alone to make so much difference.
 
Based on what I hear at home, and a headfi meet last year, and a trip to highendheadphones a few weeks ago, I don't think there's anything wrong with my BHSE.
There's nothing wrong with the tubes at my normal listening level. And it's sounding fullof life and depth right now on any decent recording. So, bit of a mystery really.

Hi TheAttorney,
Yes I agree the trailing DIY sockets didn't help at all although like you said I wouldn't thought it would cause such a dramatic change to the music…maybe a bit of detail and clarity lost.   
 
Saying that the Woo Wee set up we listened to does sound slightly better (slightly more detail and spaciousness) in another room where I am using a better grade of extension cable and input sockets although the difference is not huge like I experienced with the BHSE.  
 
Yes it is a bit of a mystery.   I just hope you are getting the best performance out of your BHSE that it should be capable of.   I don't know how other BHSE's sound as this is the first one I have heard…...which I am most grateful to you for.