[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Most are either too used to the sound of their old gear, or are unwilling to admit the newer and cheaper stuff sounds amazing after shelling out for a pair of R10s

I disagree.
 
In response to the post before, I agree with your sentiments on the Ed9 and L3000 absolutely.
Definitely disagree with your sentiments on the SR-Omega.  With a little more bass it would be almost perfectly neutral.
Love the HD800, but have modified them slightly to get the tone and imaging I want.
I guess I just don't hear what other people are hearing in the LCD2.  To my ears, they do not have the level of control or accuracy the HD800 have.
The bass heavy R10 out of a well-matched amp is wonderful and euphonic, but certainly not the be all end all in headphones.  Don't really care for the bass light version.
 
It's obvious your brain's tone maps are different than mine.  I can send you an interesting article on this if you'd like.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Would you be so kind to get your ego off your ears and then talk.

 
That's not a very nice thing to say to him.  He's only sharing his impressions.
 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Would you be so kind to get your ego off your ears and then talk.

 
Quote:

To put this in perspective, I think the K1000 are just terrible headphones, even out of fancy SET amps.  I dont understand everyone's love affair with them, as the "soundstage" is just about on par with putting near field speakers 2 inches from your head.  If I want a speaker-like soundstage, I'd use speakers - especially given the K1000 amp requirements.  Their high and low rolloff is disappointing at best. 
 
The HE90, out of every amp I've tried them with, were lots of fun.  But in the end, the "euphoric sound" factor turned into "these are damned colored, and there is a treble peak that feels like it is physically piercing my eardrum, and bothers the hell out of me."  I prefered the WES to the HEV90, HEV90 to the ES-1, and ES-1 to the BHSE for these cans.  None made the HE90 reference quality - it is a statement headphone, imho, due to price and scarcity. 
 
The SR-Omega, even out of a BH, is way too forward to be considered cream of the crop. 
 
The O2 mk1 are similar to the LCD-2 in tonal balance, I agree completely.  However they are still a bit too midbass-prominent, and they seem more congested and blurred than the LCD-2.  Stats may be faster than typical dynamics, but these orthos really sound like they have them beat. 
 
The HD800 has a strange peak somewhere that makes the band sit back in a fantastic soundstage, while the singer moves forward and yells in my ear.  I dont know why this happens, but it is a dreadful experience.
 
The R10s win hands down as far as a pleasant, easy, "musical" experience (I have only ever owned the bass-heavy set).  They are, on a relative scale, slow and sloppy, with a too prominent midrange.  The lushness of these headphones wears on me quickly, making this aspect known at all times in a very obnoxious way. 
 
The Ed9, L3000, etc. all have their hugely significant flaws which dont put them in the highest tier at all. 

 

He maaaaaaaaaaaaad.
 
I think money spent on past offerings/out of production offerings vs cost of newer flagships is a pretty fair statement in many cases though... Doesn't mean the new planars are in fact better, but they certainly are at least close subjectively to a lot, and objectively they are on par or better.

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

 
I think money spent on past offerings/out of production offerings vs cost of newer flagships is a pretty fair statement in many cases though... Doesn't mean the new planars are in fact better, but they certainly are at least close subjectively to a lot, and objectively they are on par or better.

What do you mean by "objectively?"

 

[Skylab]

I very slightly prefer the bass-heavy R10 over the LCD-2. But only just a bit. The LCD-2 and HE-6 are just stupid-good for the money. They are both notably better than the Beyer T1 and Senn HD800 (and yes, I currently own all of these).

r10 are still the best closed headphone ever made, though

 

[El_Doug]

Interestingly, I never had a bass issue with the SR-Omega, except with the uber low stuff (1812, etc.), and I can probably count the number of recordings I have that get that low on one hand   Keep in mind that these are all top-tier cans we're talking about, and when I complain about forward mids on these cans, I am really nitpicking  
 
I'd love to hear one of these modded HD800s, actually.  I love their presentation except for that fishy bit in the highs, which I have read the foam mods cure.  They sure are comfortable!!! 
 
It seems we actually have similar experiences and feelings with regard to all headphones, EXCEPT the LCD-2s.  Odd indeed.  I really would like to read about "tone mapping," as my college neuroscience and cog psych courses focused heavily on the visual, and none of the other senses.  If you could send me a link, that'd be super awesome! 
 
Quote:

Quote:

Most are either too used to the sound of their old gear, or are unwilling to admit the newer and cheaper stuff sounds amazing after shelling out for a pair of R10s

I disagree.
 
In response to the post before, I agree with your sentiments on the Ed9 and L3000 absolutely.
Definitely disagree with your sentiments on the SR-Omega.  With a little more bass it would be almost perfectly neutral.
Love the HD800, but have modified them slightly to get the tone and imaging I want.
I guess I just don't hear what other people are hearing in the LCD2.  To my ears, they do not have the level of control or accuracy the HD800 have.
The bass heavy R10 out of a well-matched amp is wonderful and euphonic, but certainly not the be all end all in headphones.  Don't really care for the bass light version.
 
It's obvious your brain's tone maps are different than mine.  I can send you an interesting article on this if you'd like.

 

[El_Doug]

amen to that! 
 
/in before Ari reminds us that they are semi-open
 
Quote:

r10 are still the best closed headphone ever made, though

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Interestingly, I never had a bass issue with the SR-Omega, except with the uber low stuff (1812, etc.), and I can probably count the number of recordings I have that get that low on one hand   Keep in mind that these are all top-tier cans we're talking about, and when I complain about forward mids on these cans, I am really nitpicking  
 
I'd love to hear one of these modded HD800s, actually.  I love their presentation except for that fishy bit in the highs, which I have read the foam mods cure.  They sure are comfortable!!! 
 
It seems we actually have similar experiences and feelings with regard to all headphones, EXCEPT the LCD-2s.  Odd indeed.  I really would like to read about "tone mapping," as my college neuroscience and cog psych courses focused heavily on the visual, and none of the other senses.  If you could send me a link, that'd be super awesome!

Here's the link to the article.  I guess it was finally published online.  It's about treatment for tinnitus and really helps to understand how the brain maps tone.
 
http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/26-ringing-in-the-ears-goes-much-deeper
 
 
To my ears the ED9 and the L3000 were not top tier cans and wouldn't even pay $100 for them if they were for my own use.
 
If you do a search on Head-Fi for "HD800 modification thread" you will find the thread I made a long time ago.  It's a simple, 5-minute, fully un-doable mod with a piece of t-shirt cloth.

 

[decur]

Quote:

I very slightly prefer the bass-heavy R10 over the LCD-2. But only just a bit. The LCD-2 and HE-6 are just stupid-good for the money. They are both notably better than the Beyer T1 and Senn HD800 (and yes, I currently own all of these).

r10 are still the best closed headphone ever made, though

my r10s and lcd-2 are tied for me.
r10s  have an edge with classical and jazz. they also have a larger soundstage .
lcd-2 are much better with rock,and sound great with every genre i throw throw at them! lcd2 is also more transparent,and i have to agree with you sky,that r10s are the best "closed" can period!!
 

 

[MrSpenkelink]

Very interested in this discussion. Is the Joseph Grado HP1000 series also worthy of consideration in this thread? 

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Very interested in this discussion. Is the Joseph Grado HP1000 series also worthy of consideration in this thread? 

I'd say so, along with the PS-1.

 

[vrln]

I don´t have any experience on the HE-6 (but judging from the threads here I´d guess it´s clearly superior to the LCD-2), but I did own the LCD-2. Ended up selling it, as I don´t feel it´s anywhere near as good as the hype. It´s a nice rock can in particular, definately something to keep in a collection if you have the extra cash, but to me it´s too flawed to be considered an allrounder. It has two major issues: (1) the severely recessed highs and (2) very poor soundstaging, leading to a cramped, congested "2d" sound. It also lacks finesse and delicacy found in high end dynamic headphones (HD 800 in particular) and STAX gear in general.
 
The weight also makes it something I would never consider wearing when doing work in front on my PC. Sure it does many things right too, the bass in perfect (but again, because of the poor soundstage it doesn´t feel that good in the end) and the lack of sibilance in a blessing as headphones in general seem to be pretty flawed when it comes to that. What I mean is that sibilance-free setups are usually achieved by using distorted tube gear (nothing bad about that if it sounds good!). There aren´t that many non-sibilant headphones on the market.
 
Personally I think a well-amplified balanced HD 600 or HD 650 (or K701 too) are all far more enjoyable than the LCD-2 generally speaking, so I don´t think the LCD-2 warrant the question in the topic. Sure the LCD-2 some things better than HD600/HD650, but all of those sound better to me as they can project a large soundstage. If the canvas is too small, being detailed and all that doesn´t help much. Complex music will sound congested and two dimensional. To sum it up, the LCD-2 is a nice genre-specific niche can if you ask me. When it comes to overall genre-agnostic performance, it just doesn´t work. When comparing to higher end dynamic headphones such as the HD 800 (which has its issues too, I won´t deny that), it´s not really in the same league. Overall accuracy, control and imaging (not to mention comfort) are all far superior on Sennheiser´s flagship. The best headphones I´ve heard so far has been a STAX rig though. It lost against the HD 800 in imaging (but was still miles beyond what the LCD-2 can do), but didn´t have any glaring weaknesses. I don´t own a STAX rig myself (too expensive, and it would be too difficult to switch), but I do feel they are a league above anything else (that´s available mainstream wise, so I´m not counting HE60 etc) out there. High end dynamics are good competition for them though, and with them you get a lot more flexibility etc.
 
But maybe the ortho sound just isn´t for me, I understand my experience isn´t exactly what most people here seem to think Anyways, just my 0.25 cents!

 

[IPodPJ]

The above post is basically spot on.

 

[castlevania32]

from what i understood, lcd-2 doesnt' have recessed highs. It's the others headphone that have artificially boosted high to make them sound more detailed and clear...The LCD-2 sound like a headphone should sound, it is the hi-fi. About the soundstage, this is nonsense too, soundstage is ridiculous on any headphone compared to a speaker system, why would you want a headphone to give a poor imitation of speakers.

 

[jamato8]

I have the HE-6 and the LCD-2. Sorry, but it is all an opinion, and for me the LCD-2 in no way is recessed nor does it lack sound stage in any way compared to the HE-6. They both are great but it also depends on source and amplification. Right now I am listening to "Blues for Dyana" by Peter Green and the depth and sound field in general is pure excellent. The dynamic contrast and perfect cymbals and reverb takes you there. This is on the LCD-2. The HE-6 does great with it also, just a different vantage point.