HE-400 vs HD650
Aug 1, 2014 at 8:47 PM Post #16 of 36
  ...The comfort of the Sennheisers are absolutely believable given how often I forget I have my HD518s or HD598s on my head. I also tend to listen for long periods, especially during the night when shrill treble can be especially fatiguing.

 
+1 to this.  The HD5X8s are a great value.  My 558s are my 'set and forget' headphones -- comfortable, good across all genres.  Made me think about the HD600s but I had the same concern you did...how much more would I be getting for my $300?
 
Mar 7, 2015 at 9:17 AM Post #18 of 36
Looking for my 4th brand new headphone in the last year, but can't decide which one. Hopefully this headphone can put a rest to my quest for more (that is, until I decide to buy some nice portables/IEMs anyway). :p


What I have now and what I enjoy about them:

- ATH-M50 -- sub bass, efficiency, good clarity, easy to drive, lots of headroom
- HD 518 -- punchy mid bass, open sound, comfortable, warmth, no sibilance
- HD 598 -- wide soundstage, airiness, natural sound, beautiful mids, very comfortable, nice sparkle, instrument separation


What I listen to:

- Hip Hop
- Electronic (House, Trance, Dance, D&B, Trip Hop, Chillwave, Ambient, etc.)
- Jazz
- Reggae / Dub
- R&B / Funk
- Rock (Classic, Indie, Alternative, even some Folk)
- Pop ('80s and '90s mostly)
- May use for TV/movies and gaming, but not necessarily.
______________________________________________________


The choices:

HE-400 with a set of velour pads included for $349 CAD. Said to be the "final batch" (is this about the multiple revisions?).

or

HD650 for $475 CAD.


Thoughts:

- I like what I've read about the HE-400's bass extension and energetic sound, but I'm worried about sibilance and comfort issues.

- I have enjoyed every Sennheiser I've ever listened to and I like the HD650's scalability and what I've read about it's rich sound, but I'm worried that the improvement over my HD598s will be negligible for the price of admission only.

- Basshead or not? I thought I was, but my 598s are my go-to cans. Which is odd, because I listen to lots of bass-driven music, and usually prefer generous sub-bass and flat mid-bass, which the 598s are not.

-  I have not heard either headphone and have no way of doing so. I do not have an amp or DAC yet, but will purchase one accordingly.


Let me know what you guys think. Thanks in advance guys!

Hey, sorry to bring up an old thread but i noticed you have both of these headphones in your inventory and was wondering which one you prefer?
 
Mar 7, 2015 at 9:44 AM Post #19 of 36
I would definitely pick the HE-400 over the HD650. It's only downfall is it's weight and if you have a small head it might not fit right. But it sounds better than the HD650 in every way. At least to my tastes. I still own both though, so both have their positive virtues. The Hifiman are a little brighter but I think the highs are the HD650s downfall. Not as clear as others I have.
 
Mar 7, 2015 at 9:48 AM Post #20 of 36
  What type of comment is this? To me the the HD-400 sound better than my Beyerdynamic T90 that go for $600. I personally think they blow away the HD650 and by far. 

 
You are wrong. You may prefer the HE-400s , but, I prefer the HD 650s. 
 
Mar 9, 2015 at 11:56 AM Post #21 of 36
+1 to this.  The HD5X8s are a great value.  My 558s are my 'set and forget' headphones -- comfortable, good across all genres.  Made me think about the HD600s but I had the same concern you did...how much more would I be getting for my $300?


I have compared both headphones with the same equipment. The HD650 are lifeless and boring to listen to. I do have the Sennhiser HD-900 and they do sound better than the Hifiman 400. I was listening with the focus pads on the hifiman headphones which makes them sound better.
 
Mar 9, 2015 at 12:36 PM Post #22 of 36
You are wrong. You may prefer the HE-400s , but, I prefer the HD 650s. 



I have compared both headphones with the same equipment. The HD650 are lifeless and boring to listen to. I do have the Sennhiser HD-900 and they do sound better than the Hifiman 400. I was listening with the focus pads on the hifiman headphones which makes them sound better.


Mr. Rick...meet Mr. Huberd.:smirk:
 
Mar 9, 2015 at 12:38 PM Post #23 of 36
I have compared both headphones with the same equipment. The HD650 are lifeless and boring to listen to. I do have the Sennhiser HD-900 and they do sound better than the Hifiman 400. I was listening with the focus pads on the hifiman headphones which makes them sound better.

Obviously you need better equipment. LOL
 
Mar 11, 2015 at 1:15 AM Post #24 of 36
Hey, sorry to bring up an old thread but i noticed you have both of these headphones in your inventory and was wondering which one you prefer?


No problem. :)

I ended up buying the HE-400 shortly after making this thread, but eventually caved and bought the HD650 a few months later.

As for which one I prefer? Ahh...tough question. To my ears, they sound very different, and therefore they complement each other well. I wouldn't give either one up.

The HE-400 is more aggressive, more engaging, clearer, and has more readily apparent detail. The instrument separation, layering, and imaging still blows my mind to this day. It is very open, to the point that you can hear the sound change slightly if you wave your hand over the grilles...even 6 inches away. The bass quality is everything it was touted as -- deep, visceral, fast, textured, and behaved. The mids seemed almost perfect until I heard the HD650; now the HE-400's mids do sound a little unnatural and recessed, though not significantly so. The treble is what made me reach out to the HD650; it can get quite sibilant and 'tizzy' on poorly mastered and/or low bitrate tracks. The HE-400 is definitely the more revealing of the two when it comes to bad material. The HE-400 is very dynamic sounding. I use the velour pads; thinking about getting the Focus Pads, but $45 for pads seems excessive.

The HD650 is smoother, warmer, more intimate, and sounds more rich. It has a sound signature that begs to be turned up; it sounds much better at higher volumes than lower. The low-end is mid-bass centric, meaning it doesn't dig as deep as the HE-400. It does have nice impact though, and it tends to sound 'thicker' than the HiFiMan. The mids are beautiful; so full-bodied and natural, without even a hint of harshness. I've noticed subtle tonal differences in the midrange of tracks I know well. The treble is just silky. These are darker headphones than the HE-400, and they're far more forgiving. They don't seem as detailed as the HE-400, but that's not to say the HD650 isn't detailed -- it just isn't as in-your-face on the Sennheisers. The HD650 is very relaxing to listen to, and more comfortable (though I find the HE-400's comfort just fine). The HD650 doesn't have the WOW factor of the HE-400, but you soon realize it doesn't have any faults either.

So yeah, it ultimately depends on what you want. To me, both sound terrific with the genres I listen to, but again, the presentations are very different.
 
Mar 11, 2015 at 10:36 PM Post #25 of 36
No problem. :)

I ended up buying the HE-400 shortly after making this thread, but eventually caved and bought the HD650 a few months later.

As for which one I prefer? Ahh...tough question. To my ears, they sound very different, and therefore they complement each other well. I wouldn't give either one up.

The HE-400 is more aggressive, more engaging, clearer, and has more readily apparent detail. The instrument separation, layering, and imaging still blows my mind to this day. It is very open, to the point that you can hear the sound change slightly if you wave your hand over the grilles...even 6 inches away. The bass quality is everything it was touted as -- deep, visceral, fast, textured, and behaved. The mids seemed almost perfect until I heard the HD650; now the HE-400's mids do sound a little unnatural and recessed, though not significantly so. The treble is what made me reach out to the HD650; it can get quite sibilant and 'tizzy' on poorly mastered and/or low bitrate tracks. The HE-400 is definitely the more revealing of the two when it comes to bad material. The HE-400 is very dynamic sounding. I use the velour pads; thinking about getting the Focus Pads, but $45 for pads seems excessive.

The HD650 is smoother, warmer, more intimate, and sounds more rich. It has a sound signature that begs to be turned up; it sounds much better at higher volumes than lower. The low-end is mid-bass centric, meaning it doesn't dig as deep as the HE-400. It does have nice impact though, and it tends to sound 'thicker' than the HiFiMan. The mids are beautiful; so full-bodied and natural, without even a hint of harshness. I've noticed subtle tonal differences in the midrange of tracks I know well. The treble is just silky. These are darker headphones than the HE-400, and they're far more forgiving. They don't seem as detailed as the HE-400, but that's not to say the HD650 isn't detailed -- it just isn't as in-your-face on the Sennheisers. The HD650 is very relaxing to listen to, and more comfortable (though I find the HE-400's comfort just fine). The HD650 doesn't have the WOW factor of the HE-400, but you soon realize it doesn't have any faults either.

So yeah, it ultimately depends on what you want. To me, both sound terrific with the genres I listen to, but again, the presentations are very different.


Right on. Thanks for the detailed explanation! Ive had the hd650 for a while which i really like but curiosity has gotten the best of me so i ordered the he-400i. It does sound different then what i remember the he-400 sounding like but im not convinced that i like it more. Ill have to spend some more time with it. Im hoping itll be a good alternative to the hd-650.
 
Apr 16, 2015 at 5:42 PM Post #26 of 36
Posted in the HD-650 Impressions thread - cc'ing here:
 
Well, got in about eight solid hours with the HE-400 spread over two sessions. It was paired with my Bottlehead S.E.X which, unlike my Crack, is completely stock.
 
Source was SACD/FLAC > Fiio X5 > S.E.X. I won't do a full review here (that would belong in the HE-400 thread) but I'll knock off a comparison for those interested:
 
First Impressions
These are very different animals. The first thoughts that came to mind were the unique sound of the planar drivers vs the dynamic drivers. While I find the 650 has great vertical soundstage and an okay width, the HE-400's excel here, and it's the driver technology doing it. It's like tower speakers on either side of your head. More on that later.
 
They feel solid and well-built, very industrial - I have no concerns with the build and I feel less like babying them than with the Senns although I'm sure I have no need to for either. Maybe the 650's are handled more "reverentially" lol. Yes, the HE-400's are waaay heavier, but man up - I had no comfort issues at all over two decent sessions. The headband padding is non-existent, the foam under the velour too hard/dense, and the cups are big and heavy, but at no time did I feel imposed upon. Just nowhere near as comfy as the amazing Senns are. One thing I liked is that the tips of my ears (no, they are not Spock-ears) never touched the driver-covering cloth which can be very annoying. Moving your head too quickly would easily dislodge them, and the bottom of the beer needed tilting, not my head lol. I'd imagine with the pleathers this would be even worse.
 
The cable is very stiff and gets in the way, especially with the bizarre mini-coaxial connectors extending so far down. You're always aware of them if you turn your head.
 
Plugging in, I thought there was something wrong. The output seemed far too low for the setting on the dial. The tubes were fully warmed up, and if this was the Senns I would have been at a very nice, medium-listening level. It was amazing how much current these things can eat. The S.E.X. is a 2wpc single-ended transformer amp, designed for lower-impedance cans. That said it handles the 650's very well indeed, just not quite as well as the OTL Crack. The HE-400's sucked back every bit of what this amp brings to the table. I cannot imagine they sound good from a weak source at all - will try later with lesser powered amps but I can't see it.
 
Bass
On the HE-400 impressions thread, once you get past the first 80 pages or so of honeymoon bliss and new-owner gushing, these cans are described as "dark", "laid-back but bright", "tizzy" and other contradictory labels. They are touted for well-extended sub-bass, with the texture and slam a planar should bring. I didn't really find that. The bass does extend lower than the Senns but only just. The HD-650's are known for their mid-bass hump which, with their glorious mids, bring a lot of depth, warmth and meat to music. I call the HE-400's flatter through this range which should be a good thing, but if you've come to love the rich low-end of the 650 signature you may be disappointed with the overall presentation of the HE-400 bass. Quite opposite to what my expectations were.
 
Mids
No contest here. The 650 has the sweetest mids of the cans I've tried, and they blend so well into the upper-lows and mid-lows that they more-or-less define the 650 sound. A hard act to follow. The mids on the HE-400, neither forward nor recessed, seem to have many dips in FR across the range. This may well be where the planar design comes into play. Voices sometimes seem nasal and distant, as if the singer were cubby-holed in a phone booth while the band plays outside. Female vocals suffered more. This may be something my brain will adjust to, and I think it's a function of the incredible separation/tracking of the planars. Each instrument voices individually and it's striking but not always beneficial. Rush 2112 (the remastered 24-bit new release) was is some ways magical as Alex Lifeson's guitar became such a distinct track of it's own, but the overall cohesiveness suffered. On the Senns I was focused on the overall synergy this trio manages, on the HE-400's it was like they each mailed in a track without hearing the whole. Tough one - this will boil down to preference, but overall the Senns win here for their amazing mids no matter which "effect" you prefer.
 
Treble
I am sensitive to fatigue from harsh highs, from the sibilant range right on up. That's one reason I love the 650 sound so much: it never fatigues or makes you wince. It was the area of most concern with the HE-400's and, sure enough, I had to EQ it down from 7K onwards to avoid that fatigue. Sibilance wasn't an issue - that's a bit lower in the FR, but above that did have the "tizzy" sound sometimes ascribed to these cans. Yes, I checked, they are not the recalled Rev. 3 with the sandy-brown drivers. Taking the high-end down a notch helped and hurt: the tizziness was reduced but not eliminated, but some of the "air" and sparkle was lost. And that air and sparkle was really part of the magic of these cans. Perhaps with the S.E.X, which I already find much more spacious and airy than the Crack, adds too much to the highs here. I really would like to try again on a darker amp, but for me these highs are problematic and that's a shame: these cans need that air to stand out.
 
Soundstage
No winner here - just preferences. I find the 650 quite intimate for an open can. The HE-400 has more soundstage, especially vertically. This might come down to a genre thing: classical on the HE-400, more jazz-hall on the 650. Both are good :)
 
Imaging
Finally the HE-400's score a clear win here. Each instrument and voice capture their own space, and your mind can easily shift to following any one at will. I won't say they're all presented well, but there's no question they're well-separated unlike the 650's more cohesive picture.
 
PRaT
Not something I'd normally call out, but I do because the two cans are very distinct here. Pace, rthym and timing are much better on the HE-400, as they should be on a planar. The speed of the driver is one of the touted advantages of planer transducers, and here it shows. On very fast-paced, textured percussion (think Yello, world music, a Neil Peart skin-bash) there is a level of definition not only on percussion hits, but the decay between even fast-paced hits that's staggering. This coupled with detail (next) is these cans' strong-point.
 
Detail
Yep, again the HE-400. To a fault if you love the warm, forgiving sig of the Senns. Listening to well-ripped vinyl the pops and crackles turn from an old friend to a bad distraction, and wow-and-flutter that the Senns graciously hid become a droning track of it's own. The flip-side is you capture all the good details just as well. Details lost in the Senns warm blanket come to the fore, good bad or ugly. With great recordings you'll be impressed at what they retrieve. Poor rips or compression artifacts will stand out in a way the Senns forgive. The classic double-edged sword here, but partnered with the speed, imaging and PRat of these cans it can lead to some magical moments.
 
All-in-all I'm impressed, but with a few caveats. These are specialists, not the all-rounders the Senns are. With a good recording, a powerful amp and the right genre these things will kick the Senns to bits with their detail, imaging and speed. You will go "wow". And then you'll listen to the other 90% of your music and wonder how you put up with those harsh, uncompromising and un-cohesive tanks. I think the Senns fix so much and elevate the whole, but lose some of what a detail-junkie seeks and don't keep pace as well with fast recordings. But for 90% of listening they best the HE-400 with a beautiful, warm, lush and never-fatiguing signature that's hard to beat.
 
Win to the HD-650's.
 
May 31, 2015 at 6:56 AM Post #27 of 36
No problem. :)

I ended up buying the HE-400 shortly after making this thread, but eventually caved and bought the HD650 a few months later.

As for which one I prefer? Ahh...tough question. To my ears, they sound very different, and therefore they complement each other well. I wouldn't give either one up.

The HE-400 is more aggressive, more engaging, clearer, and has more readily apparent detail. The instrument separation, layering, and imaging still blows my mind to this day. It is very open, to the point that you can hear the sound change slightly if you wave your hand over the grilles...even 6 inches away. The bass quality is everything it was touted as -- deep, visceral, fast, textured, and behaved. The mids seemed almost perfect until I heard the HD650; now the HE-400's mids do sound a little unnatural and recessed, though not significantly so. The treble is what made me reach out to the HD650; it can get quite sibilant and 'tizzy' on poorly mastered and/or low bitrate tracks. The HE-400 is definitely the more revealing of the two when it comes to bad material. The HE-400 is very dynamic sounding. I use the velour pads; thinking about getting the Focus Pads, but $45 for pads seems excessive.

The HD650 is smoother, warmer, more intimate, and sounds more rich. It has a sound signature that begs to be turned up; it sounds much better at higher volumes than lower. The low-end is mid-bass centric, meaning it doesn't dig as deep as the HE-400. It does have nice impact though, and it tends to sound 'thicker' than the HiFiMan. The mids are beautiful; so full-bodied and natural, without even a hint of harshness. I've noticed subtle tonal differences in the midrange of tracks I know well. The treble is just silky. These are darker headphones than the HE-400, and they're far more forgiving. They don't seem as detailed as the HE-400, but that's not to say the HD650 isn't detailed -- it just isn't as in-your-face on the Sennheisers. The HD650 is very relaxing to listen to, and more comfortable (though I find the HE-400's comfort just fine). The HD650 doesn't have the WOW factor of the HE-400, but you soon realize it doesn't have any faults either.

So yeah, it ultimately depends on what you want. To me, both sound terrific with the genres I listen to, but again, the presentations are very different.


Hey OP, sorry for digging up this 2-month-old thread, but I have a few questions about the HD650 and the HE400. Originally, I wanted to try out the HE400 since many people compliment on its great bass. I usually listen to sad pop songs with high vocal and occasionally deep bass, so the bass really stands out amidst the high parts. Therefore, deep, impactful bass makes the songs sound so much better! I went to an electronic store before to try out as many headphones as I could before deciding which one to buy, and the factor that made me say "yes, this is the one" was the quality of the bass. As you can see, I consider the bass an important element in my music, and the HE400, naturally, would be a good choice. However, after reading your comparison between the two, I learn that the HD400 is quite "energetic", "dynamic", and "unnatural" on the mid and high range. This could be a problem, since I wouldn't want the vocal, which apparently is the main part of the song, to be rough and unrefined. Also, I wouldn't want these sad songs to be too "fast" and "engaging", as I prefer a warm, rich, and processed sound. Do you think the HE400 would be a good fit for sad pop songs? Do you prefer listening to the HD650 for that? Or is there not a big difference between the two?
 
May 31, 2015 at 1:57 PM Post #29 of 36
  Don't bother with HE400 even new version is inferior compared to HD650 and HD600. I own HD600 and it is great can for the price.
 
once I have heard HE400 it is sibilant harsh sounding



Sounds like you haven't heard the HE-400i. It's completely different from the old HE-400. 

I agree that the old HE-400 is sibilant, and its mids aren't that great. Of course it has excellent bass, but it's not a well rounded or natural sounding headphone. The HE-400i is much more natural, and it has a warm signature that's similar to the HD-650. Rich mids, smooth treble, and fantastic bass. HE-400i bass has better extension and impact than the HD-650, and it's clearer and has more detail. But it's not quite as dark and doesn't have the same smooth magic or whatever you want to call it. 
 
May 31, 2015 at 2:16 PM Post #30 of 36
 

Sounds like you haven't heard the HE-400i. It's completely different from the old HE-400. 

I agree that the old HE-400 is sibilant, and its mids aren't that great. Of course it has excellent bass, but it's not a well rounded or natural sounding headphone. The HE-400i is much more natural, and it has a warm signature that's similar to the HD-650. Rich mids, smooth treble, and fantastic bass. HE-400i bass has better extension and impact than the HD-650, and it's clearer and has more detail. But it's not quite as dark and doesn't have the same smooth magic or whatever you want to call it. 


Actually I own now HE400i alongside with HD600 I also have listened HD650. you are may be right on bass slightly better articulation I hear, but overall I prefer HD600. It is more like side grade than upgrade for me
 

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