[regal]

OK with the help of others I have been able to use windows media player 10 to decode a HDCD into a 24 bit WAV file. You can then convert this to a 24 bit flac file and play it with Foobar thru your computers digital out to an external CD and you have a true 20 bit resolution without the added expense of a HDCD capable DAC.

Here's how:

First download and Install Chronotron Inc WAV Output Plugin for WMP.

Open WMP and goto plugin's and chose the Chronotron and point it to your preferred output directory

Then in WMP goto Tools>Options>Devices>Speakers> Select 24 bit

Now load your HDCD into your Rom drive and play in WMP. The entire CD will be ripped as it plays into a single Wav file with the title of the first song (you can use Goldwave to break up the songs if needed.)

Last use Music converter (dBpoweramp) to convert the WAV's to flac. Play in Foobar. Look at the kbs!

It is a shame but when you listen to a HDCD without decoding you are actually listening to a degraded SQ (don't believe the HDCD marketing.) An HDCD played 16 bit is compressed and I think painful to listen too. After decoding they can sound just as good as a DVD-A.

I don't want to mention names for privacy's sake, but those who helped develop this many, many thanks.

 

[feckn_eejit]

You're welcome

Just so everyone knows, I would be amazed if decoding HDCD in software using WMP is the same as using an actual hardware chip. You will get the peak-expansion feature in software decoding, but you will not get the benefit of the various hardware filter modes on the PMD100, PMD200 and DSP-based HDCD chips.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Is there an easier way to separate by track? What about just outputting each track individually?

 

[Magsy]

Mine splits the tracks for me? Anyway, if it doesn't just use the cuesheet from the original disc to split or just play it with the cue in foobar.

Couple of things to watch out for..

If you set WMP to 24bit then you get 24bit output (wav) with a HDCD in the drive or a plain cd.

If the HDCD logo is white you have a real HDCD but WMP is not decoding it,
only when the HDCD logo is green is it decoding it.

During my earlier attempts at ripping I used Total Recorder. WMP seems to be clever knows what you are upto - the light does not go green. My point being make sure you don't have any dodgy audio filters installed if you don't get the green.

If you want to use TR then you can install Reclock set as default renderer, this will sit between the two, WMP will output HDCD then and TR is capable of ripping it. The wavout is so much easier though!

I've been busy covnverting lossless back to wav/cue, mounting in Daemon tools and then re-repping them as HDCD in WMP. It is a royal pain but some discs sound a whole load better.

 

[robm321]

I doubt it will be the same as HDCD. But that's just my opinion.

 

[feckn_eejit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I doubt it will be the same as HDCD. But that's just my opinion.

I think you're right, I don't think you get all the benefits of doing the decoding in hardware, but I have demonstrated that you do get the the benefits of an increased dynamic range: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...highlight=hdcd

 

[regal]

I've noticed that when I insert the CD the first song doesn't give the green HDCD, only after it reaches the second track do I get any HDCD logo.

Also Flac or even Wav files ripped from HDCD's on my hardrive never give the HDCD. I know the rips are good because when played via digital out to my HDCD reciever it gives the HDCD display.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feckn_eejit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you're right, I don't think you get all the benefits of doing the decoding in hardware, but I have demonstrated that you do get the the benefits of an increased dynamic range:

Agreed - it still may be a benefit

 

[regal]

Beats buying an HDCD, that is real limiting. I don't really care about the filtering I am a NOS DAC guy. The 20 bit range is nice but my real interest in this is that HDCD's that aren't decoded are compressed and sound worse than if the CD had never been engineered to be HDCD. In other words with HDCD either decode or suffer, don't believe the HDCD hype brochure.

 

[Magsy]

If it goes green on track 2, when I skip back I get green on track 1.... :\
The only way it will do HDCD is when you mount the source as an image (make your own), a designed in limitation I guess?

Unsure if it is HDCD at work or the possible mangling during the making but HDCD rips sound much better than the 16bit copy to me.

 

[LouT]

hdcd is 20 bit not 24. EDIT(ops you guys knew that) I have played one to hardrive converted to flac, decoded flac to wave, and nero back to a cd-r...and yes if it is bit perfect an errorless my player sees the ripped cd as hdcd and the light illuminates.

Usually the HDCD sounds better than the CD in any player. This is because the recording is of a better nature. When someone goes to the trouble of creating a hdcd, they don't do a junk recording. It plays as a 16 bit if your player does not decode it, but a very well recorded 16 bit.

As for the hype? Head down to a linn dealer and audition a system and tell me if you can hear the difference.

Holy Cole "one trick pony" HDCD try that one out as a comparison...mega string bass detail. I am sure it will play well in any system.

Lou

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouT /img/forum/go_quote.gif . It plays as a 16 bit if your player does not decode it, but a very well recorded 16 bit. Lou

Actually without HDCD decoding the "16 bit" version is compressed as a 14bit recording. Those extra 2 bits are where the 20 bit info is stored. HDCD does have a price, and that is without a HDCD decoder you are actually getting worse quality than if they had not engineered with HDCD at all.

 

[LouT]

Nero does not decode it just makes an exact copy of the file. It shows it as 16 bit?

As a wave file a regular cd and the hdcd look the same under the file information. 44.1khz 16 bit.

http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-down...ing-to-cd.aspx

edit If the cd was anything but red book many players would not play the disk right? 16 bit 44.1 is the standard. MP3, or wave files of a different bit value will not play in a standard cd player.

I played the original hdcd disk in mwp and the white hdcd logo came up, I played the cd-r in wmp and the same white logo came up. I have a feeling wmp knows the disk is hdcd, and decodes if the sign is up. WMP9/10/11 do support hdcd. I have WMP11 and the hdcd flag is never green for me. just comes and goes with a white one. my Ikemi plays both as a hdcd.

 

[LouT]

Quote:

First download and Install Chronotron Inc WAV Output Plugin for WMP. Open WMP and goto plugin's and chose the Chronotron and point it to your preferred output directory Then in WMP goto Tools>Options>Devices>Speakers> Select 24 bit Now load your HDCD into your Rom drive and play in WMP. The entire CD will be ripped as it plays into a single Wav file with the title of the first song (you can use Goldwave to break up the songs if needed.) Last use Music converter (dBpoweramp) to convert the WAV's to flac. Play in Foobar. Look at the kbs!

I tested this in WMP11. every cd done this way will create the 24 bit wave/flac file...not just hdcd. Think of it as an upconvert somehow. It is not decoding and giving you the better hdcd wave file, it is decoding and giving you the 16 bit regular information and creating a 24 bit.

While ripping in this method the sound coming off your soundcard in analog might be the decoded hdcd, but I'd bet large that the information going to that wave file is not decoded HDCD. It is doing this upconvert in bit wave file for all cds. (might make all cd's sound better, but that is to be seen)

Another tidbit is that although in WMP 24bit mode the data is large and the filesize is a 24 bit wave...the hdcd decode light does not light for me. If I take the 24 bit option off and just let it play the hdcd decode lights up. This produces a 16 bit wave file though.

All testing was the same whether I used the original or the CD-r version of my HDCD disc. I am certain the copy is as good as the original at least, as the Stand alone player decodes it np.

If you alter a disc encoded in hdcd in anyway it copies a dud cd-r that will not decode the hdcd in my Ikemi player. The massive 24 bit wave that was thought to be decoded hdcd will not burn to a cd-r and play in any hdcd players....so the file is not hdcd. This sound reasonable?

Lou

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouT /img/forum/go_quote.gif I tested this in WMP11. every cd done this way will create the 24 bit wave/flac file...not just hdcd. Think of it as an upconvert somehow. It is not decoding and giving you the better hdcd wave file, it is decoding and giving you the 16 bit regular information and creating a 24 bit. While ripping in this method the sound coming off your soundcard in analog might be the decoded hdcd, but I'd bet large that the information going to that wave file is not decoded HDCD. It is doing this upconvert in bit wave file for all cds. (might make all cd's sound better, but that is to be seen) Another tidbit is that although in WMP 24bit mode the data is large and the filesize is a 24 bit wave...the hdcd decode light does not light for me. If I take the 24 bit option off and just let it play the hdcd decode lights up. This produces a 16 bit wave file though. All testing was the same whether I used the original or the CD-r version of my HDCD disc. I am certain the copy is as good as the original at least, as the Stand alone player decodes it np. If you alter a disc encoded in hdcd in anyway it copies a dud cd-r that will not decode the hdcd in my Ikemi player. The massive 24 bit wave that was thought to be decoded hdcd will not burn to a cd-r and play in any hdcd players....so the file is not hdcd. This sound reasonable? Lou

Of course all CD's will turn out to be 24 bit. When you use a non-HDCD you get a 24 bit files, but it doesn't have 24 bit dynamic range only 16 bit. What WMP is doing is decoding the HDCD to 20 bit then padding to 24 bits because most DAC's don't recognize 20 bit. That is the whole point of this exercise. When you use WMP to decode the HDCD to 20 bit then padd to 24 bit you get 20 bit resolution playable with about 99% of all DAC's. And no its no longer a HDCD at this point, it is a 24bit 44.1k disc with 20 bit resolution. The whole point of this is to convert the HDCD to something all DAC recognize.

Again the reason for doing this is an HDCD played thru a non-HDCD decoding DAC is actually compressed and worse quality than if the CD had not been HDCD. Doing this you get 20 bit resolution (which is debatably better than RBCD) but absolutely better than 14 bit compressed HDCD.

Think of HDCD like DTS, only when it isn't decoded it is 14 bit compressed audio instead of static.

Analogies
DTS DECODED gives 5 channel surround sound
NOT DECODED gives static hiss (no music)

HDCD DECODED gives 20bit resolution
NOT DECODED gives 14 bit compressed audio

RBCD converted to 24/44.1 still gives 16 bit resolution

HDCD DECODED and converted to 24/44.1 NO HDCD DECODING DAC REQUIRED GIVES 20 bit Resolution


What WMP does is padd the resulting 20 bit audio to 24 bit so it is recognizable with no decoding required by most all DAC's. It creates something akin to an HDAD (24/96), but not quite as good.

Any other questions ?