HD800 vs LCD-X - Plain and simple comparison
Jul 13, 2015 at 9:47 AM Post #16 of 28
I've had to turn the volume up on both Audeze LCD series and HD800 alike.  I guess it's because the distortion is so low on both of them.  None of them are low level listening cans for me.
 
 
It's odd as well, because the HD800 has a somewhat u-shaped response, just like the LCD-X, yet they both take some volume.  In my past experiences with u-shaped headphones, the elevated treble and bass made for easier low listening pleasure.
 
Jul 13, 2015 at 11:53 AM Post #17 of 28
Originally Posted by TMRaven /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 In my past experiences with u-shaped headphones, the elevated treble and bass made for easier low listening pleasure.

Exactly, it is because one's ears perceive frequencies differently, depending on their volume (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Acoustics226-2003.pdf). That's also why the Loudness button was invented and Yamaha used/still uses adjustable Loudness.
 
Jul 14, 2015 at 4:30 AM Post #18 of 28
When you crank up the volume you're enjoying more distortion. HiFiChris makes a good point in the previous post. I always look for headphones which sound balanced at low to moderate volume levels.
 
Jul 14, 2015 at 9:18 AM Post #19 of 28
Well, after having a chance to properly compare LCD-3F with my headphones, the LCD-3F is definitely my end game for the foreseeable future. Delivery due on Friday :) Everything else I've got goes on sale, time to recover some funds :)
 
Jul 14, 2015 at 12:03 PM Post #20 of 28
Congrats Mario.
 
I understand needing to put everything else on sale, but it's a shame you can't wait and do the ultimate 3 way comparison - not many people have the whole line-up in house at the same time!  
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Best of luck with the sales and hope you enjoy the 3Fs.  Look forward to your thoughts vs the X. 
 
Jeb. 
 
Jul 15, 2015 at 4:17 AM Post #22 of 28
  Congrats Mario.
 
I understand needing to put everything else on sale, but it's a shame you can't wait and do the ultimate 3 way comparison - not many people have the whole line-up in house at the same time!  
happy_face1.gif

 
 
Best of luck with the sales and hope you enjoy the 3Fs.  Look forward to your thoughts vs the X. 
 
Jeb. 

 
Hi Jeb,
 
In order to make a by-the-book comparison between LCD-X, LCD-3F and HD800, I first need transformers with 110ohm taps. Hopefully these will be ready tomorrow and the LCD-3F are due to arrive on Friday. Though the other two headphones are already listed in the commercial section, I doubt they will get sold so quickly, so I believe I'll have a chance to make an extensive comparison. Even without it though, in my mind LCD-3F is the better headphone.
 
You know, though I really want to, I just can't keep all these headphones :) Since I plunged into the headphones realm about 10 months ago I spent a hefty amount on headphone and even more so on the gear. I really feel I need to rebalance my bank account :)
 
Cheers,
Mario
 
Jul 15, 2015 at 2:15 PM Post #23 of 28

Absolutely - you've got to remain solvent !  Even though your amp is DIY you obviously didn't skimp on the materials either. 
 
It will be great if you do get a chance for an Audeze shoot-out.  I just want you to know that we're all counting on you.  
 
 
I joke, of course - have fun with your new headphones. 
 
Jul 24, 2015 at 4:54 AM Post #24 of 28
Hi guys (Jeb, this post is for you :)
 
I've been quiet for a week now, but I wasn't sitting idle. Since I received the LCD-3 last Friday I've been comparing headphones and fiddling with my system. I've got new output transformers to accommodate the LCD-3F, which have better extreme treble and low bass extension and are more pinpoint accurate, and also the HD800 tap went up from 300 to 380, which resulted in some surprising sonic improvement.
 
LCD-3F IMPRESSIONS
 
Compared to LCD-X the 3's aren't natural per se. They have a more laid back sound. When I say that I don't mean they color the female volcals like they belong to transgenders, like some others have commented elsewhere. It just feels like you're further back in the concert hall. The X sounds more like a studio headphone, which can be both good or bad, depending on my mood. Also in the bass region the 3's don't extend as low as the X's and don't punch so hard and the bass is a tad loose, but it's still very good. Now the upsides: they have better treble presence and extension. Also, on the X's the treble feels strained, like there's some constant tension, whereas on the 3's it's not only more detailed, but smooth and relaxing (I know, I know, don't point me to any measurements, please. I gave up staring at measurements 10 years ago). Furthermore the 3's don't have this slight metallic hue in the upper mids and treble that the X's exhibit. Some may find the treble energy a little too much in relation to the upper mids... me too in fact, but I like it. Finally the dynamics are a bit better, but not by much. Overall i'd call it a great headphone for pleasure listening. I like it a lot more than the X exactly because it doesn't have the studio sound.

HD800 - BIG SURPRISE
 
There's no other way to say it, so I'm come straight out with it. With the change in the tap, the HD800 is now again the best headphone IMO. Put simply, i hear the high end is better extended and the upper mids/lower treble is smoother and more relaxed, while being a good bit more transparent, more than the X's in fact. The lower mids and mid bass increased in presence, while still feeling very tight and well articulated. The low end bass got a bit loose, but it's not that bad. The attack and sheer dynamic swing of the HD800 can hardly be matched by any of the LCD's. Though the 2 and the X feel tonally correct and the 3 being super smooth, acoustic guitar plucks, snare drum, etc, all feel more real on the HD800 in both dimension and time. The real downside of the HD800 IMO is that it's really tough to get it running well with a tube amp. Due to its huge impedance swings, you always tradeoff a little bit of something for something else.

FINAL THOUGHTS
 
I know this is a headphones forum and I shouldn't be talking like this, but I'm really getting fed up with headphones now. Although I can praise all headphones I've got for what they are, they're no match for real speakers with paper cones, not even the mid-level ones. Look at the photo I've attached. These are old school Fostex FX120 with ferrite magnets. I took them out of the closet, dusted them off, and plugged them in for a reality check. Sitting on my desk 1 meter away from my head, even bare naked w/o enclosures they have a better presentation in almost every way than all of my headphones. I know in a bookshelf box they have a -3db at 55hz, but the base is punchy and tight. Even without a box the mids are smooth and pretty detailed and even despite the aluminum cap the highs are very smooth and natural, with pretty decent precision. These drivers are almost equally transparent (the cobalt magnet version of these will take you to a whole other level though), and more dynamic than all my headphones and on top of that they make a very real (though fairly modest) soundstage, unlike the HD800. They're still in production today and note they are cheapo drivers at only about 400 euro. I jumped on the $1000+ headphones bandwagon less than a year ago in pursuit of the special oh-so-detailed sound of the top of the line headphones, but mostly because I couldn't think of anything else I could upgrade or improve in my speakers system anymore. I have to reluctantly admit that I'm quite a bit disappointed now. Unless you really need the privacy the headphones give you, I honestly feel that a pair of 4/5/8 inch dynamic dransducers mounted in a 20-30 litre  box sitting on your desk will cost you the same money or a bit more, but it's a much more rewarding experience. And there's this last but very important thing... headphones simply can't move air the same way speakers do!
 
Just my 2 cents. Never forget... YMMV!


 

 
Cheers,
Mario
 
Jul 24, 2015 at 6:24 AM Post #25 of 28
I see you have been busy - Excellent work Mario and thank you.
 
honest & straight to the point as usual - very nice.   Ultimately, I'm going to need to demo these three if and when it comes time to upgrade.   The 3s sound most suited to my tastes so may take a bit longer to acquire these. 
 
It's actually quite nice to have some reference to a speaker set-up, despite them being different beasts.  It seems like there are a number of people who experiment with headphones but return mainly to the speaker-world.  Apart from portable use I don't *need* to listen to headphones at home but I just sometimes enjoy the intimacy of the experience and somehow the sound seems more refined and precise - though that may well say more about my 2-channel set-up than anything else.   But I understand where you are coming from.  Actually I would love to build some speakers one day, when I live somewhere more suitable. 
 
I guess the final questions is -  will you be thinning the collection down to only the HD800, or are you keeping all three for different flavours/moods ?
 
Also, can we see your main speaker set-up ?  As you say, this is indeed a headphones forum but since you said you were - in some ways - looking for something in headphones that might be competitive with your speakers I think it would be valid!
 
Jeb.
 
Jul 24, 2015 at 7:22 AM Post #26 of 28
Thanks, Jeb. If I remember correctly, you were with the fireflies, so my bet would be you'd like the 3's and the X's more than the HD800. Again, YMMV, as you know :)
 
The presentation of a really good speaker system is on a completely different level. I really feel the headphones are the bottleneck of my headphone system (ironic, isn't it?), so I've decided to get rid of all headphones and never look back. Fortunately I've ordered all my transformers with a 4 ohm tap, so I can always plug in full-range speakers. That's my exit strategy. I've already placed an order for another pair of Ether 7, for which i'm going to design some nice bookshelf enclosures and keep them on my desk in the office.
 
Attached is a photo of my main speaker system from the time when it was still in my office. I moved it home, because of the poor acoustics here in the office and I started he "headphones project" right after that.
 

 

 
 
Cheers,
Mario
 
Jul 24, 2015 at 7:35 AM Post #27 of 28
Stunning set-up Mario.  Particularly like the glass tops -  just enough to protect the tubes and enhance the look without obscuring anything.  Lots of clean-lines!  Must have made a nice talking-point during meetings.  :)
 
 
Nice work and good luck on the next leg of your audio journey! 
 

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