(HD6XX + Liquid Spark + SDAC) or (HD58X + $230)

Which is a better entry


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    5
Mar 11, 2019 at 4:13 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 24

pcdubc

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Dear Head-Fi Community,

This will be my entry into the Audiophile community. I am debating between two setups:

HD58X ($150) + no AMP/DAC

or

HD6XX ($200) + Liquid Spark ($100) + SDAC ($80)

My wallet likes the first option. However, I fear that I'm not giving my listening experience a fair introduction without getting familiar with a designated Amp and DAC.

May I have your thoughts on which of the two is a better starting point? I am also open to other recommendations.

Thank you
 
Mar 11, 2019 at 5:00 PM Post #3 of 24
I own the Liquid Spark amp and 58x. Although you can drive the HD58X without an amp I think it is a you will be much happier in the long run with an amp (and dac). I have read that the 58x does not scale with better gear like the 6xx so if you can afford it and plan to upgrade the second option sounds good.
 
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Mar 11, 2019 at 5:54 PM Post #4 of 24
No experience with the 58X, but I would get an amp and DAC either way.

I own the Liquid Spark amp and 58x. Although you can drive the HD58X without an amp I think it is a you will be much happier in the long run with an amp (and dac). I have read that the 58x does not scale with better gear like the 6xx so if you can afford it and plan to upgrade the second option sounds good.

Thank you! Regarding scalability of 6XX vs 58X , does that go hand in hand with impedance? In other words, is it the case that low impedance headphones are both more drivable and less scalable? And is this the main difference between 6XX and 58x?

Thank you!
 
Mar 11, 2019 at 6:45 PM Post #5 of 24
No when it's said that better headphones scale with better amps and dacs it means they take advantage of them while lesser headphones max out with lesser associated equipment. This is separate sound quality issue, different, I think from impedance and drivability.

Here is a quote from a review of the 58x:

In the way of raw fidelity, the HD6xx scales so much with superior gear that it makes it the better overall value for audiophiles. The HD58x is the better value for casual listeners who don’t have an expensive rig.

 
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Mar 11, 2019 at 11:21 PM Post #6 of 24
Either way, get a dac/amp. For the cans, it really depends on what you want from them in regards to sonic traits. I went with the 58X, as it sounds better with rock and metal imo. It's a stea at the asking price.
 
Mar 12, 2019 at 9:22 PM Post #9 of 24
Thanks! I listen to Jazz and Classical. Would the 6XX be better for those genres?
The Liquid Spark does a nice job with the 6xx’s. Don’t have the 58X’s so can’t say . Give me some jazz that you like to listen to I have Tidal so they have a bunch.
 
Mar 12, 2019 at 10:53 PM Post #10 of 24
1. HD58X ($150) + no AMP/DAC
---
2. HD6XX ($200) + Liquid Spark ($100) + SDAC ($80)

My wallet likes the first option. However, I fear that I'm not giving my listening experience a fair introduction without getting familiar with a designated Amp and DAC.

May I have your thoughts on which of the two is a better starting point? I am also open to other recommendations.

You could get the HD58X with the Liquid Spark and SDAC.

But it's better to choose the headphone based on the tonal balance you can live with or prefer, along with any other compromises (I prefer that terms over "sound signature," because that is essentially just "what the engineering team can live with given the research budget and MSRP"), since, barring absolutely crappy equipment, that's going to be 80% of the sound already, with the amp just lowering the noise and distortion levels, and the DAC lowering noise and maybe helping imaging (maybe).



Thank you! Regarding scalability of 6XX vs 58X , does that go hand in hand with impedance? In other words, is it the case that low impedance headphones are both more drivable and less scalable? And is this the main difference between 6XX and 58x?

Scaling has a lot more to do with sensitivity/efficiency and transparency.

Impedance is only somewhat related to sensitivity and efficiency. Used to be using a higher impedance voice coil was one of the common ways to increase the sensitivity, with the added bonus of preserving amplifier damping factor (hence reducing driver distortion) thanks to very high output impedance as per Euro standards, but the penalty there is that as high as the sensitivity is, power delivery from the amp will also drop. Depending on how drastically power drops as you increase the impedance, in some older amps, even an AKG K701 will get louder, but it has higher driver distortion thanks to its low impedance. This isn't a common problem anymore thanks to better amp designs that are more widely available.

Now if the sensitivity is low you need more power; if the sensitivity is high but so is impedance, you need a fair bit of voltage and gain, meaning either a better amp design that doesn't drastically drop output as impedance rises, or one that starts with waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more power at lower impedance (or an OTL tube amp that has its output biased towards high impedance at the cost of current performance), since as much as high impedance tends to make for lower noise and distortion, some amps don't output that much by that point and you end up cranking it up to make the noise floor audible or even clip the signal. Either way, coupled with reasonably flat response, a better amp will make such headphones sound better than say if you were to put 5mW out of a smartphone or 1000mW out of a Schiit Asgard into a very high efficiency bundled earbuds that have a narrow and/or jagged response that will still sound like crap, only louder, as opposed to either headphone example where an amp not running out of steam on either will now get you cleaner output.

Think of it like how you can have a lightweight FWD car like some econobox from India or SEAsia, and then you put a Lancer Evo turbo I4 engine on it, and it will still suck. The other headphones are kind of like a sports car chassis with a heavier drivetrain even on the same engine as the econobox since it has a longer wheelbase and a driveshaft for its rear wheels. Put the Evo turbo engine in there or a V12 and it's still going to handle a lot better and go faster than that econobox.
 
Mar 12, 2019 at 11:37 PM Post #11 of 24
I would say get the 58x first and make sure you even like the sound signature that this type of headphone offers...it might be the case that you aren't even a fan of the Sennheiser 'house sound' in which case investing in the more expensive gear would be a waste.
If you like it and want a 'better' version of it, you can sell off the 58x and upgrade to the more expensive version...however if you don't like it, or it is lacking in some way and you want something different (AKG, Beyerdynamic, Audiotechnica, etc) you have the same option of selling off the 58x, or just keep it and add something else to the collection that compliments/contrasts with the 58x....
I guess my point is, don't invest a bunch of money on the first go-round when you aren't even sure what your preferences are in sound. Save a little money, leave your options open, and make a more informed choice in the future.
 
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Mar 12, 2019 at 11:50 PM Post #12 of 24
I would say get the 58x first and make sure you even like the sound signature that this type of headphone offers...it might be the case that you aren't even a fan of the Sennheiser 'house sound' in which case investing in the more expensive gear would be a waste.
If you like it and want a 'better' version of it, you can sell off the 58x and upgrade to the more expensive version...however if you don't like it, or it is lacking in some way and you want something different (AKG, Beyerdynamic, Audiotechnica, etc) you have the same option of selling off the 58x, or just keep it and add something else to the collection that compliments/contrasts with the 58x....
I guess my point is, don't invest a bunch of money on the first go-round when you aren't even sure what your preferences are in sound. Save a little money, leave your options open, and make a more informed choice in the future.
I would say these two headphones sound different enough to not really form a decision as to if someone likes a house sound. That was my impressions anyways. I wouldn't consider the 6XX an upgrade. That's how different they sounded to me. Side grade maybe, but again, tonally and sonically different.
 
Mar 13, 2019 at 12:22 AM Post #13 of 24
The Liquid Spark does a nice job with the 6xx’s. Don’t have the 58X’s so can’t say . Give me some jazz that you like to listen to I have Tidal so they have a bunch.

Thanks! I listen to quite a variety. But a fan of Gerald Clayton, Branford Marsalis, Stan Getz, and Bill Evans in particular.

I would say get the 58x first and make sure you even like the sound signature that this type of headphone offers...it might be the case that you aren't even a fan of the Sennheiser 'house sound' in which case investing in the more expensive gear would be a waste.
If you like it and want a 'better' version of it, you can sell off the 58x and upgrade to the more expensive version...however if you don't like it, or it is lacking in some way and you want something different (AKG, Beyerdynamic, Audiotechnica, etc) you have the same option of selling off the 58x, or just keep it and add something else to the collection that compliments/contrasts with the 58x....
I guess my point is, don't invest a bunch of money on the first go-round when you aren't even sure what your preferences are in sound. Save a little money, leave your options open, and make a more informed choice in the future.

These are excellent points. I really don’t know what I like at the moment. I *think* I like clarity, balance (across registers), depth (sound stage??) and warmth. Based on these criteria, would you recommend a particular headphone? Need not be Sennheiser. Thanks!

@ProtegeManiac thank you so so much for taking the time to explain everything. I am still digesting all of that, but kind have a big picture of how things relate now. Thanks!
 
Mar 13, 2019 at 12:47 AM Post #14 of 24
I would say these two headphones sound different enough to not really form a decision as to if someone likes a house sound. That was my impressions anyways. I wouldn't consider the 6XX an upgrade. That's how different they sounded to me. Side grade maybe, but again, tonally and sonically different.
Well....yes and no. See, the difference between the 58x and the 6xx might be enough of a distinction for you...but the OP doesn't even know if he likes open backs.... planars, closed backs etc. I mean, the two discussed headphones have family resemblance...but if you put them next to the Modhouse Argon, and a Grado 325e well, now we are talking about differences, for sure.
I think my point stands: figure out what you like before blowing your whole budget.
 
Mar 13, 2019 at 12:57 AM Post #15 of 24
Thanks! I listen to quite a variety. But a fan of Gerald Clayton, Branford Marsalis, Stan Getz, and Bill Evans in particular.



These are excellent points. I really don’t know what I like at the moment. I *think* I like clarity, balance (across registers), depth (sound stage??) and warmth. Based on these criteria, would you recommend a particular headphone? Need not be Sennheiser. Thanks!

@ProtegeManiac thank you so so much for taking the time to explain everything. I am still digesting all of that, but kind have a big picture of how things relate now. Thanks!
I think your initial instincts were good with the 58X...I don't have a set but it seems like from the types of music you like they are a good place to start at least. I think it's pretty well accepted around here that they are a great deal in terms of price/performance ratio and they are a great entry into the audiophile arena....they will be an easy headphone to sell in the future...I mean, if you get them, use them for 6 months and get a good handle on what you like/don't like in a headphone and then turn around and sell them for $100 (which will probably take one day to get a buyer on headfi classifieds) and then move on to a headphone that better suits your needs, you paid less than $10 a month, learned a lot, enjoyed your music and moved on without too much pain. Or you might love them and simply want to buy an amp to get even more enjoyment from them, either way it's the least painful path as opposed to buying an amp, a dac and a set of headphones and hoping they suit you.
EDIT...as an alternative, you might want to look at the Beyerdynamic DT880 as well.
 
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