[jallen89]

hi,
 
i have the chance to pick up a pair of 650 in mint condition with the cards cable on it. I've found  a few reviews saying they have contact noise and are annoying to use, easy to tangle ect. has anyone here had experience with the 650 with the cardas cable?
I've read that if brightens the sound up and adds more instrument seperation. I've posted a pic of the headphones. from what I've read cardas cables are normally 10+ feet, this cable is short, which is what i prefer
 
thanks for your help,
Jesse
Jesse

 

[NA Blur]

When I tested both I found no audible differences.  The stock cable is more flexible which I actually liked whereas the Cardas cable is quite stiff.
 
The only way to make the HD-650 sound amazing is to run balanced through a good balanced amp.

 

[lextek]

I never had any issues withe the Cardas cable.  But the the HD650 is a very, good cable.

 

[sregor]

For what it's worth, I spoke to Jeremy and Ben at HeadRoom and they said the Cardas cable would "tighten up the bass a little bit more".

 

[IEMCrazy]

I used my 650's with the Cardas cable for years (the 10' one...gray jacket, not the blue-ish one you seem to have, I'm not sure if there's a difference or not.)   The feel of the cable is unusual, but kind of pleasant.
 
I was able to detect no sonic differences with the different cable, however, and the newer Senn cables are a big beefier than the old ones when I bought mine.   I'm no golden ear, but for what Cardas is charging for his cables these days there many great amps, DACs, and CD's I could imagine spending that money on instead of whatever magic the upgraded cable supposedly provides.  (I can understand how a different conductor material such as the 100% silver in Silver Dragon cables could affect sound, conducting different frequencies at different speeds, etc.  But Cardas' and Senn cables are both copper (as far as I know, the site has never been very descriptive...), well insulated, and well made.) 
 
Now, in my case, I didn't buy it for the sound upgrade, I bought it because I needed a very long cable and I wanted something rugged and durable.  And it was durable in spades.  It survived a few accidents before finally breaking somewhere inside and now I have to wiggle it everywhere before I get a stable connection instead of the one side cutting out.  And at the time they were half the price they are today.... at today's prices I wouldn't buy it again.  But if you have it...it can be nice to have around for its physical properties.
 
Overall the Senn cable is a fraction of the price, more flexible, almost as well made, and sounds, to my ears, just as good, and Sennheiser doesn't tell me to avoid moving the cable otherwise it will ruin the cable's "memory" and affect SQ.  Doesn't look as audiophile-chic though!  I like a lot about the build of Cardas' cables....but what he's charging has jumped into Monster levels of hype, and then some...If you need a long run though, there's really no other option.  At $150 it was overpriced but with merit.   That was long ago.  At $300 plus, it should come with a free panda.

  For free, why not, it's pretty, it works, it's durable....it's worth it for the bling!

 

[jallen89]

thank you all for the quick replies. i might just wait and see what the headphones sell for, if they are cheap enough i will buy them. i prefer the 600 and i have a pair on the way but i wouldn't mind a 650 as well
you guys have been very helpful, thank you

 

[hodgjy]

If you think headphone cables make changes in the sound, then I've got some oceanfront property in Nebraska you're gonna love.  Seriously, the boutique cable market is the biggest scam on the planet.  As long as cables are properly constructed of the proper gauge and shielding, no non-comic book super hero can tell the difference in blind tests.

 

[IEMCrazy]

 
Quote:

If you think headphone cables make changes in the sound, then I've got some oceanfront property in Nebraska you're gonna love.  Seriously, the boutique cable market is the biggest scam on the planet.  As long as cables are properly constructed of the proper gauge and shielding, no non-comic book super hero can tell the difference in blind tests.

 
 
LOL, true enough.  Where things like the Cardas shine are in that it comes in long, 10', 15', even 20' runs which you can't get stock on any stock headphone cable, and you definitely need heavier gauge for that kind of run (you're almost into the "needs balanced" territory on that 20'.)  I think the original purpose for the heavy headphone cables was indeed durability for pro-audio use where stock cables were getting mangled. 
 
There's absolutely a useful niche for it (not involving SQ) but what's become insane is the pricing. I could see spending $60-$100 on an ultra high quality cable that is heavy gauge for long runs and more ruggedized than a typical cable.  There's value there.  But these prices on boutique cables these days for what amounts to $20 in materials + the costs of small yield manufacture and sale is insane.  I could buy a case of Sennheiser cables for the price of one Cardas... Heck, I could buy half a bolt of household AC wire...nice 1/4 solid copper conductors and attach my own connectors on them... Since it handles 2000W ok, I'm sure it'll make the watt or two I'm sending my headphones sound much better...

 
Although...with all that "extra space" in the cable, I might need to split it into 40 strands and wind them over double helix inverse cybernetic photonic initiator stranding (R)(TM)....you know, so the audio signal doesn't bounce around and get lost....

 
 
Seriously though I imagine most of the "audible difference" people detect in cable that doesn't involve gauge or different conductor base metals, where it's not placebo, has to do with the quality and materials of the terminations.  "Sloppy solder" and so forth...  I imagine some $1k boutique cables probably have really poorly done terminations...that "enhance" the sound like a rotting tube...
 
Still, if you NEED a long run (I did at the time), or if you NEED rugged (in a military sort of way) there still could be value to some of these rubberized cables like Cardas.  That thing survived being rolled over by a rather heavy chair with semi-sharp wheel edges numerous times over years before it finally failed, and the outer housing still looks pristine, and the cable works fine if you get it to settle in the right spot.  So for durability....it can be a good investment depending on what you need it for!  It also coils cleanly and nicely, making it ideal for professional type purposes where process control saves time and money even if the tools to provide it are overpriced. 

 

[hodgjy]

That's just it.  Boutique cables are useful if you want durability and thick gauge for long runs.  As far as tweaking your sound like an equalizer, that's just snake oil.

 

[rhythmdevils]

Maybe you have tin ears?  That's the same kind of statement you are making. 
 
I hear a clear difference and my experience cannot be written off as snake oil because many times I have preferred cheap cables over expensive cables.  I bought some nice handmade cables for my powered speakers, and I wanted to like them, expected to like them, liked how they looked and felt.  I went over what I wanted them to sound like with the maker, and expected them to sound like my monoprice cables but with a bit more clarity.  But they made my speakers too bright/cold in tone and I preferred my cheap monoprice cables. 
 
I also preferred the HD650's stock cable over a silver dragon I bought, and for the same reason.  It sounded bright/cold in an unnatural way on my rig.  I compared the HD650 cable to a Cardas cable and couldn't hear a difference and so I sold the Cardas because it was so much heavier and stiffer and the stock cable was easier to deal with. 
 
You can keep spouting numbers and theories, but there's no way that is snake oil.  Or in my head.  My experiences with cables have time and time again gone against what I expected and wanted. I hear a difference.  But sometimes cheaper is better. 

 

[dorino]

The difference between silver, copper, and steel cables is there. It's barely there.
 
The difference between any individual copper cable and another copper cable or two silver cables is negligible, to the point it's not really worth mentioning... This assumes, of course, the cables are all properly shielded, etc.

 

[deviusdragger]

For me  when they say, "it'll tighten up the bass a little bit" or "brings out the treble a little bit" it just not good enough to spend all that money. I want a huge difference especially for that huge price. Maybe monoprice should start making headphone cables .

 

[tdockweiler]

I wonder if all these people who say cables make no difference have tried to prove themselves wrong? I always believed cables made no audible difference and believed everyone else. Then I tried it out for myself to know for sure. I can't tell any difference with speaker cable really ( haven't done any A/B comparisons), but with headphone recables it's fairly easy.
 
I bet if you took 10 KSC75's and recabled them with Belden, Mogami, Canare etc you'd have to be deaf not to tell the difference. Of course some headphones seem to benefit less from recables than other. I don't believe $200+ cables are worth it, since I've almost never had a cable make more than a 5% improvement in sound. I think sometimes it takes a good DAC and hearing to figure out the differences. It took me a good 3 weeks to really pick apart the difference between my stock Q701 cable and an ALO SXC cable I had made.
 
I don't know why cables change my sound on a headphone so much. I think it's pretty common knowledge that a higher capacitance wire will sound warmer and a lower one will be brighter. Of course most say this won't matter with a headphone cable length. You can go to any forum and always see people complaining about Canare rolling off their highs. I've had the same experience.
 
I've had recables actually ruin what I love about a headphone. You can recable an HD-650 with Canare and make it into a muffled mess. Take a Belden 1192A cable and recable an HD-598 with it. It suddenly becomes much too bright and fatiguing. Why? I have no idea, but it did. I spent weeks trying to deal with it.
 
I'm not a believer of $200+ cables. I don't think they could ever be worth that. Maybe people love to spout out this Snake Oil garbage because all the pre-built cables are so expensive? I believe in making nice DIY cables for cheap. It's a fun hobby and doesn't cost much at all. I can easily recable my HD-598 for less than $10. Totally worth every penny.
 
With the correct wire I can retain the stock HD-598 signature, but improve the detail, sound clarity and soundstage (I know you'll love that one). Most of the benefits would not show up in graphs.
 
I'm also one of those who have found that cheaper wire often sounds better. I'm a big fan of the Monoprice interconnects. They're slightly warm and sound good. I have a whole collection of cables I made for dirt cheap and it took a new DAC to tell the difference between any of them. Strangely enough the most neutral cable I have is the tiny 3.55mm to RCA cable I made from some scrap silver plated copper. I like to use it with my HD-598. With interconnect cables I think there is maybe a 3% difference. I did have one strange experience where my Belden 1192A interconnect killed the sound signature of a SRH-940. That was just plain weird.
 
For those that want a fun experiment, buy a KSC75 for $15 and recable it with Mogami and tell me if you hear a difference. You'll be surprised how good it sounds just with a cheap recable. So glad I've learned how to use a soldering iron and make myself cables.
 
Also one more thing..what's really funny is taking an HD-650 cable and recabling a fairly bright headphone with it. The results are fairly amusing to say the least. I think a part of the Senneiser HD-650's sound is due to the cable. Yes, I said it. I think Sennheiser has a very good reason behind their use of specific cables.
 
Biggest difference I ever heard with a recable was when I attached a new cable to my HD-598 and removed all it's insides. It was enough to push it up past my K601 as a favorite. When I recabled my DJ100 there was little improvement. I also think there is less benefit to a Q701 recable than say using a new HD-650 cable.
 
IMO most stock cables are good, but many are garbage so I remove them. I'd say that an amp/dac upgrade is a much better investment than a $200+ cable. With that money saved you could invest in some cheap Belden wire $1.25/foot) and a soldering iron

 
BTW I think I actually like my Belden $25 Q701 cable more than the ALO SXC (silver plated copper) one. Is it better? Nope, just different and all due to preference. Silver plated copper seems to be much less warm than the regular old copper. It's nice having a choice of two different cables.