[tilt]

so i plug my 600's straight to the av-710, turn up the volume....pressed play.

My ear drums nearly impoded as i scrambled to get the phones off my head.

after adjusting the volume to a reasonable level, i found them to sound the same as with an amp.

I guess the 710 has enough juice to power the 300ohm monsters

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

No, they really don't.

AV-710 can't even power ATH-A900. You must be tin-eared.

-Matt

 

[tilt]

bah

 

[japa]

On the same note, have a look at what I just posted:
Tested: Karma + HD-650 with amp (Amplification forum)

 

[tilt]

good to know im not alone in this.

im not so sure about the tin ears...but just to be sure, i'll listen unamped for a week to get used to the sound, then play the same songs with the amp a week later and see if theres a "ahhh. so this is what was missing"

but at present, i doubt it.

 

[tilt]

I could understand it if i had to crank the volume to drive these headphones, but i have to lower it to near mute.

 

[ken36]

Sold my600s. Maybe I was wrong.

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

It's so obvious that the line-out of the AV-710 is underpowered.

Listen to the bass notes.

Notice how they're shallow and harsh? Do you notice how undynamic the presentation sounds?

I made this observation with an ATH-A900, too; not really any headphones can be powered sufficiently without any amplification.

-Matt

 

[Langrath]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfrenchman27 not really any headphones can be powered sufficiently without any amplification. -Matt

Do you really mean that? Grado SR 60? Koss Porta Pro? Sennheiser PX100?
Georg

 

[sgrossklass]

tilt: You didn't say which output you hooked 'em up to. The "normal" front out off the VT1616 features an opamp for headphone use, and that would probably go plenty loud enough.

BTW, I'd say the alternative (WM8728 based) output has a better chance driving the 300 ohm HD600 than the 40 ohm ATH-A900. Since the DAC can drive headphones to half-decent levels at all it must have an opamp inside (for I/V conversion alone), and those aren't fond of low-impedance loads. The line out of old ISA Soundblasters, for example, features trusty old TL072 opamps which may have a decently high slew rate but cannot deliver a lot of current. Plug a 120 ohm HD590 into that, and the sound will be harsh and tinny. Now try a 2kOhm HD424 of yore, and the result will be far more pleasing, albeit not overwhelmingly loud. Thus one should be careful when recommending low-impedance cans for "unamped" use, since "unamped" does not always mean "run off a portable device's little power amp".

 

[Arainach]

I would have to say that if they sound the same off an amp and plain, your amp is obviously not powerful enough, not "sufficient".

 

[robzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrossklass tilt: You didn't say which output you hooked 'em up to. The "normal" front out off the VT1616 features an opamp for headphone use, and that would probably go plenty loud enough.

As above.

Rob.

 

[enzoferrari650]

The difference between amp and unamped when I had my HD600's was like night and day. Unamped, the HD600's lacked bass, the highs were harsh at times and the soundstage just did not work for me. Plugged into a tube amp, the sound takes a 360 and everything comes out. The bass is a lot deeper and extends a lot further. The highs arent harsh anymore and you get this sense of warmth. The soundstage also increases as does instrument separation. I dunno about you, but I can't stand the HD600's without an amp.

Just my 2 cents

 

[robzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enzoferrari650 the sound takes a 360 and everything comes out.

Im sure he means 180 as a 360 would mean they are back where they started...

Rob.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tilt so i plug my 600's straight to the av-710, turn up the volume....pressed play. My ear drums nearly impoded as i scrambled to get the phones off my head. after adjusting the volume to a reasonable level, i found them to sound the same as with an amp. I guess the 710 has enough juice to power the 300ohm monsters

tilt, what amp have you been using? it's possible that neither the amp you're using or the soundcard are powerful enough to make the 600's sing the way that they're capable of. Give us a bit more background on your setup, you may be right for your specific case. But I'm no golden ear and I can hear the difference with my 600s from my Cmoy to Mint, Mint to PIMETA and PIMETA to M3. Each step is distinctly different, or at least sounds it to me.

Nate