[Jono3642]

Okay, here we go, back in 01 i bought a pair of HD600's with Headroom Little Amp. I didn't like it. Despite my $3000 cd player, the Senns sounded full on veiled, just too distant, pretty good bass, but I had to turn up the volume to get the closeness of Treble and Midrange I wanted. But they did sound quite crisp and nicely dark, good weight to the notes too, still I decided they weren't right.

I have owned various Grado SR-60 over these last five years, great phones, musical, emotive, crisp and clear, I love them. Downside: No weight to the notes, nothing in the Grado sound like their real life instrument, voice counter parts, no bass.

Anyway, in about 2004, I decided I should buy the HD-650's. I bought an XP7 amp with them and tried it with my Linn Cd player. This time things were different. When I took the headphones out of the box and plugged them in, they sounded horrible, muddy, thick, crap. About 20 hours later they started sounding really good, musical, still quite a thick sound, but good bass, punchy, really great. I went to bed and left them on. About 20 hours later, they again sounded horrible, every note just sounded wrong, not natural at all, bass was bloated, everything recessed and unsatisfying. I gave them another 20 hours of burn in, they still sounded the same, thick, too smooth, unatural, so I sent them back. Total (about 60 hours burn in, don't hit me)

So I decided that Sennheisers were clearly awful. Flash forward to 2005, I borrow a pair of demo HD 600's from a Hi-fi store, these have alot of hours on them, 200 at least. And to my shock, these sound fantastic, no veil, suddenly notes have weight and bass to them. yes the sound is not as up-front as the Grado's but the sheer natural sound has won me over, I think I want these phones.

And now the question, I only gave the HD600's about 40 hours of burn-in the first time, and this 200 hour burned in pair sounds really different, it even sounds great with my comp. Should I risk buying the HD650's and try really burning them in, hoping that they will become great. The fear is, I know the HD600's sound great when fully burned in, but will the HD-650's, or will they always sound too bloated and veiled for me.

Opinions?

 

[patrox89]

maybe you have a sinus problem and this causes your ears to hear things differently after a few hours. i know that for about the past 2 weeks ive had a sinus problem (not infected) and music sounds very different, kind of veiled. maybe thats what youre hearing?

 

[tkam]

The 600s and 650s do take quite awhile to burn in before they sound there best. Be aware though that the 650's have more bass then the 600s which is why you see some people prefer the 600s.

 

[firefox360]

The Sennheiser HD6x0 headphones need extremely long burn-in times. Some even say that after 200 hours they're still changing. As you're burning them in, according to some members, the sound signature will zig zag in and out from better to worse then back to better. I'de say if you have the money why not try them out. Let them burn in for 200+ hours, and then compare that sound to before.

 

[kin0kin]

but no matter how long you burn it in.....it will still sound veil, especially in the mid range department, I don't really like how vocal sounds on the senns. The veil is most obvious when you compare them with rock songs, and if you compare them with the Grados....it's even more obvious

so make sure you are comparing them with the right genre of music to demonstrate their "sound signature" (to me it seems like a flaw....oh well) coz often, I think the senns sound fine with most music

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin but no matter how long you burn it in.....it will still sound veil

Have you tried your Senns with a better amp/source. I simply cannot fiind anything "veiled" when pairing the 6x0 series with a good solid state amp.

YMMV, IMHO, blah blah blah...

Nate

 

[PFKMan23]

Personally, I've got my HD650s recabled and woodied and I don't notice the veil at all (listening out of a portable CD player-headphone out). And yes, I've heard a stock HD650.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin but no matter how long you burn it in.....it will still sound veil, especially in the mid range department, I don't really like how vocal sounds on the senns. The veil is most obvious when you compare them with rock songs, and if you compare them with the Grados....it's even more obvious so make sure you are comparing them with the right genre of music to demonstrate their "sound signature" (to me it seems like a flaw....oh well)

Show me a pair of cans without a flaw... they'd be priceless and in a museum somewhere. The Senns have strengths and weaknesses, and IMO they're masterful at what they do well. I have yet to be bothered by any 'veil', but I'm not a regular listener of rock music (these days I mostly listen to classical, 'new age', soft pop, soundscapes, and film soundtracks).

P.S. I'm suspecting something related to the amp... or maybe just subjective factors (i.e. your own perception has changed over time). Burn-in is a possibility too, but I doubt it would make THAT much of a difference (from horrible to fantastic).

 

[kin0kin]

nope. it's obvious that the senns are veil, AB them with any rock songs along with a pair of grado...any will do, and you will hear the difference right away. like I said, it's most obvious with the certain genre of music. do we need to say it all over again the fact that....senn is dark, grado is bright, senn is veil in comparison, grado is upfront?....I thought everybody knows that and that's the general concesus with these brands.

obviously each pair of phone has strength and weakness, I was merely pointing out the senn's weakness, what's the big deal?

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin nope. it's obvious that the senns are veil, AB them with any rock songs along with a pair of grado...any will do, and you will hear the difference right away. like I said, it's most obvious with the certain genre of music. do we need to say it all over again the fact that....senn is dark, grado is bright, senn is veil in comparison, grado is upfront?....

So what you mean by "veiled" is "at a distance?" Like several rows back from the front? Of course they are, this was Sennheiser's intention when they designed the headphone.

I don't know about the rumor that Senn HD580s were developed specifically for classical music listening, but it would be no surprise to find out it were true. Yes, they aren't really "all around" cans. They're VERY strong in certain areas, and somewhat weak in others. IMHO, this is a good thing. Headphones that do all things well, seldom do anything with mastery.

P.S. I re-read what you said, and I guess we agree on everything

.

 

[kin0kin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch So what you mean by "veiled" is "at a distance?" Like several rows back from the front? Of course they are, this was Sennheiser's intention when they designed the headphone. I don't know about the rumor that Senn HD580s were developed specifically for classical music listening, but it would be no surprise to find out it were true. Yes, they aren't really "all around" cans. They're VERY strong in certain areas, and somewhat weak in others. IMHO, this is a good thing. Headphones that do all things well, seldom do anything with mastery. P.S. I re-read what you said, and I guess we agree on everything .

um yes, I never said the senns sux or anything, I just said it's veil in comparison to other phones. e.g.(an analogy) #40 is > #10, #10 is < #40....I never said #10 is a small integer......which is quite subjective and shouldn't sound offensive......your reaction was rather

to me

anyway, with regards to n_maher's post, I have done several AB comparisons with several different phones....ceteris paribus....the conclusion is that, they are veil in comparison. I have never thought they sounded veil until I ABed them with some other more forward phones. (grados, evern the er4 sounded more forward than the 650)

The veil is most noticeable in the midrange and often the vocal...which is where it falls in the frequency spectrum(usually). My experience with the Senn is that, generally, the vocal is usually softer than other musical instrument in whatever music, which makes it possible to turn the volume higher than other phones. if say you take a certain song, and then take a particular instrument in the song and have both headphones' (650 vs grados?) volume turn to a point where the instrument have simialr loudness, you would realise that the senn have softer vocal and sounds further...that's the veil I'm talking about.

it's not just on vocal though, the senns just don't do rock well. Seriously I'd prefer even the sr60 to the hd650 when listening to rock music. Listening to some of the No Doubt's songs with the 6x0....music sounds so far away and things really sounded thin....it's ironic since the senn is suppose to sound rather lush and thick but that's true, btw...it's not the recording

. I seldom listen to rock music too, but nowadays I'm begining to listen to them more frequently and it just become more and more obvious to me that the senns sound veil. but nonetheless, I still love the 650, just not on rock.....modern/heavy rock to be precise....they sound ok with some soft rock like The Eagles

PS: my solution? buy a senn, and buy a grado

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin My experience with the Senn is that, generally, the vocal is usually softer than other musical instrument in whatever music, which makes it possible to turn the volume higher than other phones. if say you take a certain song, and then take a particular instrument in the song and have both headphones' (650 vs grados?) volume turn to a point where the instrument have simialr loudness, you would realise that the senn have softer vocal and sounds further...that's the veil I'm talking about.

This, with vocals -- I've never experienced it. To me, vocals sound mixed in perfectly with the rest of the music. Really.

How many different source/amp combinations have you listened with HD600/650? This could be a system mismatch issue. A setup 'tuned' for Grados is going to sound crap with Senns.

 

[kin0kin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch This, with vocals -- I've never experienced it. To me, vocals sound mixed in perfectly with the rest of the music. Really. How many different source/amp combinations have you listened with HD600/650? This could be a system mismatch issue. A setup 'tuned' for Grados is going to sound crap with Senns.

I heven't had much chance to try various sources/amps due to the limitations here, I've only tried them on my emu0404 and ipod. Like I said earlier, almost every variables is fixed, I'm only comparing the phones within the fixed sources and amp. The sr-71 is a pretty versatile amp, and it really works very well with the senns and grados. And the emu0404 is a pretty forward sounding, aggressive source, the senns should have a little more advantage there

but no, I haven't tried anything that cost a few k

which is said that the senn sounds godly with em. Want to...but can't

and my dynalo has been sitting idle at 90% for like months

 

[jesse_w]

You're claiming to be objective in saying that relatively speaking sennheisers are less forward than other headphones, which is true. They are also warmer than other headphones. What people are taking issue with is you are quietly also suggesting that it is less accurate, which many people feel is not the case. It can also be looked at as Grados and Ety's having boosted and distorted upper midrange frequencies, leading to listener fatigue and artificial detail, not to mention unfaithfulness to reality. This works both ways.

jesse

 

[kin0kin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse_w You're claiming to be objective in saying that relatively speaking sennheisers are less forward than other headphones, which is true. They are also warmer than other headphones. What people are taking issue with is you are quietly also suggesting that it is less accurate, which many people feel is not the case. It can also be looked at as Grados and Ety's having boosted and distorted upper midrange frequencies, leading to listener fatigue and artificial detail, not to mention unfaithfulness to reality. This works both ways. jesse

I'm not implying any bit that it is not natural. I don't know where you get that impression from.