[drandall]

i know i should probably keep my mouth shut, but is there any reason why you feel the need to be sarcastic and confrontational?

the OP asked an honest question and as far as i can see, is interested in what people have to say. his concern that grados may not be well-rounded enough for general use is one i've heard echoed in many other threads. he's not the first to raise the question.

perhaps you don't agree, and that's fine...you're entitled...but that doesn't mean you're entitled to be a jerk.



Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see, however (as I suspected ), that the OP actually has already made up his mind and was just looking for someone to confirm his choice, however wrong it might be. So please, by all means - disregard any other suggestions, however much better they might be with the genres in question, and go with what you've already decided. You won't really be happy with anything else once your mind is already made up for a particular headphone.

 

[JaZZ]

I have used the HD 600 with a Porta Corda in the past, and it was a very good match. I can't imagine that the Headsix be any worse, at least when it comes to mere driveability. The HD 600 isn't too critical in terms of amps anyway and can be driven by a good soundcard (E-MU 1212M in my case). I rate it as an excellent allrounder for the price, moreover it is quite comfortable on the ears. The same can't be said about Grados (in both aspects). Even though they may make rock and the like sound more spectacular, they are less true to the original signal in my book.
.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drandall /img/forum/go_quote.gif i know i should probably keep my mouth shut, but is there any reason why you feel the need to be sarcastic and confrontational? the OP asked an honest question and as far as i can see, is interested in what people have to say. his concern that grados may not be well-rounded enough for general use is one i've heard echoed in many other threads. he's not the first to raise the question. perhaps you don't agree, and that's fine...you're entitled...but that doesn't mean you're entitled to be a jerk.

Not sarcastic at all. Completely serious. It's very common for people to ask on the pretense of getting different opinions, when in fact they have already made up their minds about what to get and are only looking for other people to confirm it for them. It happens here every day.

You can make all the arguments you want to these people that they would probably be better off getting a different headphone, a different amp, a different dac, etc., and it won't matter a bit. They will ignore all that and just go with what they wanted to do all along.

I even wrote that in an above post, but then decided to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, since he explicitly asked for other opinions, and edited it out. Then he made it clear that he is almost definitely getting the HD600 or 580, confirming my initial suspicions, despite the fact that there are headphones that are much better for those genres.

Poor reasoning might have something to do with it, too. Notice that a few people write in to say how much they like their HD600s with those genres. That's fine, I'm not disparaging that at all. If you enjoy them, great. BUT, just because someone enjoys something it doesn't mean it's the best thing for the job, does it? It doesn't mean there isn't something that would be even better, does it? Lots of people enjoy skullcandy, stock ipod earbuds and bose headphones, too. Does that mean those are the best things to get?

No, obviously not at all. But again, the OP wasn't really looking for other opinions - he had already made up his mind. He was looking for someone to confirm what he already wanted to get, and people writing in to say they liked their HD600s fine with those genres was enough to do the job.

Human nature, it's a humorous thing.

 

[lazure]

Userlander - actually, I think a fair reading of my posts in this thread would indicate that I'm quite open to other possibilities. My reply to your first post criticitizing me was "Point taken."

And in fact, I'm very impressed with everything that I've read about the AKG K702, so I'm now considering those as well. However, I didn't call you out in the least because 1) I'm fairly new here and 2) you cared enough to give me your opinion in the first place, which I appreciate and am thankful for.

Honestly, I'm going to want to gather as much information as I can before I shell out $300 for something that's so obviously a luxury, especially when I already have a pair of Etys...so right now, yes, I am still considering the HD600, as they seem to be considered by many to be great all-purpose headphones, but I'm also considering the AKG K702 and Beyerdynamic DT880 (what can you tell me about yours?).

P.S.: reasons I'm not really considering Grados - 1) once briefly owned Alessandro MS1 and wasn't impressed with the comfort at all; 2) not even that impressed with their sound; and 3) ESPECIALLY, Grados can't be ordered from the U.S. here in Canada, and they're quite hard to find and usually overpriced if you order them from Canada.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazure /img/forum/go_quote.gif Userlander - actually, I think a fair reading of my posts in this thread would indicate that I'm quite open to other possibilities. My reply to your first post criticitizing me was "Point taken." And in fact, I'm very impressed with everything that I've read about the AKG K702, so I'm now considering those as well. However, I didn't call you out in the least because 1) I'm fairly new here and 2) you cared enough to give me your opinion in the first place, which I appreciate and am thankful for. Honestly, I'm going to want to gather as much information as I can before I shell out $300 for something that's so obviously a luxury, especially when I already have a pair of Etys...so right now, yes, I am still considering the HD600, as they seem to be considered by many to be great all-purpose headphones, but I'm also considering the AKG K702 and Beyerdynamic DT880. P.S.: reasons I'm not really considering Grados - 1) once briefly owned Alessandro MS1 and wasn't impressed with the comfort at all; 2) not even that impressed with their sound; and 3) ESPECIALLY, Grados can't be ordered from the U.S. here in Canada, and they're quite hard to find and usually overpriced if you order them from Canada.

Fair enough. HD600s won't sound *bad* with the right amping, but they aren't really going to convey the "spirit" of 80s music, imho. I wouldn't recommend DT880s for that, either. Maybe K701/2s would, I can't say.

If you're considering beyers, I would consider the DT990 instead of the 880s for rock. They are supposedly a more "fun" can as opposed to more clinical. The 880s don't sound that great with rock, imo, unless maybe you're mostly talking about the synth based/electronica kind of 80s rock. Even then, the 990s would probably be a better choice.

 

[lazure]

Here's what I've decided. Since I can't listen to any of these where I am, I'm going to take advantage of someone's nice return policy and order a pair of HD600 as well as a pair of Grados - I've found an online Canadian retailer that has Grados at decent prices - and return the pair I don't like. Or both if I dislike both. I've just read too much about how Grados would be perfect for the music I listen to not to give them a shot, despite my not caring much for the Alessandro MS-1i.

Now I'm just undecided between the SR-225i and the SR-325is...the 225s are $250 Cdn and the 325s are $370 Cdn, which is about the same gap between the prices in the U.S...now I gotta go read a whole mess of threads about people who've had the same dilemma...

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazure /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's what I've decided. Since I can't listen to any of these where I am, I'm going to take advantage of someone's nice return policy and order a pair of HD600 as well as a pair of Grados - I've found an online Canadian retailer that has Grados at decent prices - and return the pair I don't like. Or both if I dislike both. I've just read too much about how Grados would be perfect for the music I listen to not to give them a shot, despite my not caring much for the Alessandro MS-1i. Now I'm just undecided between the SR-225i and the SR-325is...the 225s are $250 Cdn and the 325s are $370 Cdn, which is about the same gap between the prices in the U.S...now I gotta go read a whole mess of threads about people who've had the same dilemma...

That's absolutely the best way to go about it, imo. You can get opinions from 1,000 different people and at the end of it all still not really know what to get. There's no substitute for listening for yourself and deciding what YOU like regardless of what anyone else can offer as advice - which is just our own personal experience, bias, preferences anyway.

Regarding the 225 vs. 325, I have read (haven't heard them) that the 325 is much more bright, and if I had my choice I would definitely go with the 225s for rock. I like Alessandros for their more neutral sound over regular grados (except for that slight dip in the upper mid frequencies of the MS-1), so if you want more of a mid hump you might actually like the Grados even though you don't like the MS1s. And if you want a brighter phone, the 325 would fit the bill over 225/ms1. I've found that the graphs at headphone.com are pretty useful in getting a general idea of a headphone's sound signature, especially when loading up a few different phones in comparison mode. But listening for yourself will still be the best way to go.

 

[lazure]

Done and done. Ordered Grado SR-225i from Stereotype Audio here in Canada, the only place I could find where Grados could be ordered online in Canada, and their prices are okay - $250 Cdn for a $200 U.S. pair of headphones (our dollars are practically on par, but oh well...). I decided on the 225s because the 1) the consensus seems to be that they are the seminal pair of Grados, especially considering their price point; 2) I wasn't excited about the 325s' being much heavier in light of habitual Grado comfort issues; and 3) I really wasn't excited about paying $370 Cdn for the 325s.

I've also ordered the Sennheiser HD-600 from Headroom for $300 U.S. Should be getting the Grados tomorrow (!) and Senns some time next week. I'll give them both a good listen with my Headsix and report back - I'm sending one back, just don't know which one yet. Thanks to all for your time and advice!

 

[lazure]

Ok, just received the SR-225i and I absolutely can see what the fuss is about. I didn't quite know what people meant when they talked about "excitement", "immediacy" and "being up there with the band". Wow. I'll pick a few choice songs to compare these with the HD-600 when they get here...but for now, looks like Grado has hit a grand slam in the top of the 1st and the HD-600 will be coming up to bat soon...as a matter of fact, the UPS guy just walked in as I was writing this. Senns, you're up!

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazure /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, just received the SR-225i and I absolutely can see what the fuss is about. I didn't quite know what people meant when they talked about "excitement", "immediacy" and "being up there with the band". Wow. I'll pick a few choice songs to compare these with the HD-600 when they get here...but for now, looks like Grado has hit a grand slam in the top of the 1st and the HD-600 will be coming up to bat soon...as a matter of fact, the UPS guy just walked in as I was writing this. Senns, you're up!

You won't even have to open those. Just take a blanket and put it over the grado earcups, and that's what the senn is going to sound like in comparison.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif 80s rock: fun, bouncy, synth-based (or hair-metally), forward, lively hd600: laid-back, muted, neutral/dull, non-lively yep, sounds like the perfect match. Since you ask for other suggestions, grados are a better choice, imho. 225is would probably be a good choice. P.S. Even if HD600s were a good match for those genres, I doubt the Headsix would be able to power them sufficiently.

For once I agree with everything you said (except the HD600 when well amped can be lively and exciting, but without the power and drive they need it could sound somewhat as you describe).

 

[lazure]

Userlander - not a fan eh?

Impressions out of the box:

Grados - excitement and immediacy, in your face. I can see why it's a favourite for rock music, absolutely. The price indeed seems to be a more limited soundstage. There's not a whole lot of separation between the instruments, it all seems to be thrown at you, as in "I am a headphone and I will not be ignored!" No issues at all with comfort to date, they fit fine, somewhat on, somewhat around my ears.

Senns - much more detail, separation of the instruments, soundstage. I seem to like the bass a bit better on these, but not by much; bass is fairly similar on both, I find. The word "liquid" and "smooth" definitely comes to mind when seeking to describe these headphones. I believe I prefer the Grados in terms of comfort to date - these are a bit more of a vise on my head, and listening to them for a good 15-20 minutes seems to make my ears much warmer (sweaty, even) than with the Grados...don't think that would be a dealbreaker, but I'm a bit surprised by my findings about comfort. They seem to be driven fine by my Meier Corda Headsix. I mean, I don't have the benefit of testing them out with another amp to know if they could sound even better, but they sound great to me right now. Both do.

Anyway, these are both terrific cans and you couldn't go wrong with either, but dammit, I can't keep both. I have a lot of listening to do in the next two weeks to try and pick a clear favourite. I know in the States the Senns are $100 more, so there could be price to consider for some, but there's just $50 between them for me here in Canada, so price isn't an issue for me...I'm really not sure which way this will go, will keep you posted.

P.S.: an anecdote - when first breaking the Grados out of the box, I connected them to my Headsix and they sounded like crap! I was kinda freaked out, until I realized that the cable I'd plugged them into (which was in turn plugged into my Headsix) was Etymotic's "S" cable, that turns my ER-4P into an ER-4S. Of course it would kinda sound like crap then...

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazure /img/forum/go_quote.gif Userlander - not a fan eh? Impressions out of the box: Grados - excitement and immediacy, in your face. I can see why it's a favourite for rock music, absolutely. The price indeed seems to be a more limited soundstage. There's not a whole lot of separation between the instruments, it all seems to be thrown at you, as in "I am a headphone and I will not be ignored!" No issues at all with comfort to date, they fit fine, somewhat on, somewhat around my ears. Senns - much more detail, separation of the instruments, soundstage. I seem to like the bass a bit better on these, but not by much; bass is fairly similar on both, I find. The word "liquid" and "smooth" definitely comes to mind when seeking to describe these headphones. I believe I prefer the Grados in terms of comfort to date - these are a bit more of a vise on my head, and listening to them for a good 15-20 minutes seems to make my ears much warmer (sweaty, even) than with the Grados...don't think that would be a dealbreaker, but I'm a bit surprised by my findings about comfort. They seem to be driven fine by my Meier Corda Headsix. I mean, I don't have the benefit of testing them out with another amp to know if they could sound even better, but they sound great to me right now. Both do. Anyway, these are both terrific cans and you couldn't go wrong with either, but dammit, I can't keep both. I have a lot of listening to do in the next two weeks to try and pick a clear favourite. I know in the States the Senns are $100 more, so there could be price to consider for some, but there's just $50 between them for me here in Canada, so price isn't an issue for me...I'm really not sure which way this will go, will keep you posted. P.S.: an anecdote - when first breaking the Grados out of the box, I connected them to my Headsix and they sounded like crap! I was kinda freaked out, until I realized that the cable I'd plugged them into (which was in turn plugged into my Headsix) was Etymotic's "S" cable, that turns my ER-4P into an ER-4S. Of course it would kinda sound like crap then...

Personally, I would find a way to keep both. If you like the HD600 on a Headsix, wait until you try them with a more powerful amp (Grahm Slee Novo or Solo SRG II, DV336i, Nuforce HDP, etc...) Also, the HD600 comfort increases a lot as the pads and headband break in.

 

[lazure]

I'd say that I have a fairly limited budget for this hobby/luxury, so there's no way I can or even really want to keep both. Also, I'll be trying to keep in mind which headphone could better survive the years, in terms of build quality and changes in musical tastes and equipment. To that effect, I've indeed read that the HD600 would probably be more scalable, i.e. would benefit more from amp upgrades over the years, but there's just no real way for me to verify that for sure...

 

[userlander]

I agree with you about the comfort - I couldn't stand the vise-grip and heat of the HD600s, especially in the summer. I think Grados are actually a lot more comfortable.

I also agree with HFA on keeping both if you can. They're really two completely opposite cans, and you might find a preference for one or another in the future with different genres, or even day of the week.

One thing that's surprising to hear is that you feel the Headsix is driving them enough. If that's the case and you marginally prefer them over the Grados, or even equal to the Grados, you might in that case want to keep the HD600s. They will only improve with better amping, and while the grados also will, nowhere near as much. You will likely just get a marginal increase in refinement, maybe some slightly increased soundstage, etc., whereas with the HD600s they can go to a whole new level with better amping (*probably* - as I haven't heard the Headsix, but just based on common sense regarding its specs).

Good luck deciding - since you like both so much immediately, it doesn't sound like it's going to be easy.