[BingCrosby1903]

Hello guys,
 
I'm about to buy Senn HD 800s with either the Lehmann Rhinelander or Black Cube Linear.  I am a HD 650 owner.
 
While I know there are a lot of subjective differences in sound quality between amps (I have an X can v 3 which I don't like),
I'm wondering how one can justify the extra price of the high end amps, when for instance, a mobile phone headphone jack can have better channel separation (and very obviously inadequate power to drive these cans) than the BCL, or an Asus STX has better SNR?
 
So what I'm asking is if there is a technical reason why two amplifiers, driving the same headphones at the same volume and not clipping have a different sound, and in particular, why a more expensive amplifier with some worse specs sounds better than a cheap headphone jack with  some better specs?  Because typical hi-fi specs seem to indicate that some cheaper amps would produce a more "electrically perfect" wave form to drive the headphones with, even though the high end model was fully discrete, has a toroidal power supply, better quality parts etc.  Perhaps very different standards for measuring specifications?  Different output impedance characteristics into a given load?
 
In the case of the HD 800s and BCL, I believe the HD 800s were designed with this amp, so their frequency responses will be exactly matched.
 
While my heart says get the more expensive amp, the technical side of me says "I need to know a reason why it is better?".  I'm sure a lot of you guys have had this thought too.
 
Thanks for your input and explanations and NO, I'm not going to be driving the HD 800s with a mobile phone or an STX!!!
 
Kind regards and seasons greetings,
 
Peter.

 

[DjAmTraX]

When I had the HD800, I thought the BCL paired nicely. The BCL is worth every penny IMO. It can handle every headphones I throw at it without any coloration. I may buy another for the bedside system. That's how good it is.

 

[BingCrosby1903]

Thanks for your reply.  Out of interest, why did you sell your hd 800's?
 
I'm still interested in technical reasoning why an expensive amplifier with lower published specs is a better than a cheaper amplifier with better published specs?
 
Thanks and Seasons Greetings!

 

[SP Wild]

I own the BCL and its a good amp, however the soundstage is not the largest I've heard.  I have a few amps including the XcanV3...the BCL has better precision, speed soundstage and separation than the V3...it is definitely a better amplifier.
 
Amplifiers are better than built in soundcards because they are isolated from the computers noisy case and a a good amp is better because of its better power regulation, current delivery and refinement over a portable or soundcard.
 
The BCLs key strength, I believe is its circuit speed or voltage rise times...it is the fastest amp I've heard to date, and I feel that is why it was paired with the HD800, to showcase the driver speed of the HD800.  They don't tend to publish the circuit speed of an amplifier or in other words the "slew rate".  Also from my foray into DIY...it seems to me that a circuit can also have a distinct resonant frequency...or circuit resonance or electronic resonance is how I like to put it.  I don't think this is or can be measured.  That is the whole premise of fine tuning a stiff power supply, to reduce circuit resonances and improve slew rate.  IMO that is where the hi-end amps are superior to lesser amplification and I don't believe that these attributes are being measured.  I also believe these attributes also separate a hi-end DAC to lesser DACs.  Both amp and DAC are just as important as each other when one is listening to the current crop of super hi-end cans like the HD800, T1, STAX, D7000, HE6, ED10 and LCD2.

 

[BingCrosby1903]

I agree about better power regulation and current delivery.  However, the STX is getting measured results of around 115 dB SNR and 120 dB channel separation (all frequencies) as per Stereophile while the BCL is SNR > 95 dB and channel separation 75 dB (10 kHz) by manufacturers spec.  I also know that the tpa6120a2 head amp IC on the STX has a very high slew rate.
 
I'm not trying to argue that the STX is better, but it just seems odd that the basic parameters for electrical measurement are at odds with ears/price/popular opinion for these amplifiers.  But on published specs you would pick the HD 800 drivers over the HD 650s, for example.

 

[BingCrosby1903]

And how would you compare this to the Burson Audio HA-160, particularly the HA-160D, in terms of its headphone amp capability?  The 160D is 2/3 the price of the BCL with the DAC and preamp and has multiple inputs.
 
Thanks.

 

[Happy Camper]

What flavor of neutral do you like most? The listener has a subjective palette favoring their idea of "right". Some are thrilled with bass power, another timbre accuracy. You. as the consumer, should know your preferences before trying to determine optional information. Technically, solid state amps are superior, but most high end rigs are tube driven. I always thought the most technically advanced would be "best". When I got a taste of that, I realized my tastes were not what "my" logic told me.
 

 

[InnerSpace]

I agree this is a vexing question, but in my experience the answer lies in the immense gulf between, on the one hand "textbook-classroom-theoretical" specs, derived from a very few steady-state measurements into benign fixed loads, and on the other hand "real world" demands.
 
Headphones are not benign fixed loads - many have wild impedance swings, and may or may not be significantly reactive (a spec rarely published.)  Current demand can be relatively gross at certain important frequencies and may lag voltage demand by significant fractions of a cycle.  Intermodulation distortion is rarely measured or quoted, and is more damaging than harmonic distortion.  Drivers produce back-EMF which must be damped.  Etc, etc.
 
If "typical hi-fi specs" look good for a cheap device, always bear in mind that not enough things and often the less important things are being measured and quoted.  Like saying your cousin is a nice guy because he likes cats, without mentioning the eight felonies for wife-beating.

 

[MrSpenkelink]

Well if she hadn't drowned the cats...