[Ksweene5]

Hello HeadFi - 
 
I recently got a pair of HD-650s (brand new) and have been on the fence about whether or not to keep them. I have a Ray Samuels Predator amp/dac. My next closest pair of cans quality/price-wise is a pair of Fidelio X1s, I also use ATH M-50x's and UE6000s. 
 
I really like the clarity, separation, and soundstage of the 650s - I do really, really enjoy their sound. So far my pairing with 650 and RSA has left me feeling like they were (or could be) really bright. I actually prefer the 650s out of my Yamaha Aventage receiver over the RSA right now. My primary listening is Alt Rock, classic rock, rap, folk - not really classical and jazz sometimes. 
 
My immediate concern with the 650s was that the quality/feel of the cans is lacking compared to what I expected for ~$300. Is durability an issue with these? Or, am I just being too nit picky with the criticism?
 
What are some alternative headphones that may live up to the 650s legendary sound, but with some improvement in reigning in the treble and feeling more premium/durable?
 
I did search, and saw the usual suspects of Beyer 880/990 and the AKG 701s. At a certain point seeking all the info can be a distraction from finding an answer. Unfortunately I am not in a position to be able to try these for myself - which I why I turn to HF for some help. TIA

 

[NA Blur]

The HD650 will last if you take care of it. The paint will chip over time and the earpads may fade, but you can replace those after a few years.
 
I know people that have had these for over 5 years with no issues.

 

[Me x3]

If you take care of them they should last a decade.
 
K701/2 feels similar, plastic, lightweight.
Really durable as far as you take care of them
 
DT880 Pro is built like a tank
 
Both AKGs and Beyers are significantly brighter than HD650 and also lighter in the bass.

 

[rnros]

The HD600s, virtually identical in construction to the HD650s, have been used in our home for well over a decade.
Only needed occasional replacement of cables and earpads. (2 pairs)
Have the HD650s also but only a few years.

 

[SeaWo|f]

I have had my hd650s for 7 years now. I do not baby them, I have moved 3 times, my kids have gotten a hold of them and they still look almost like new other than the ear pads.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksweene5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

My immediate concern with the 650s was that the quality/feel of the cans is lacking compared to what I expected for ~$300. Is durability an issue with these? Or, am I just being too nit picky with the criticism?

 

So basically your concern is that it feels cheap because it's plastic? It's mostly plastic for a reason: manufacturing and servicing. You can take it apart mostly without using any tools, save for some kind of lever to disassemble the headband (those "Made In Ireland" clips that hold the headband padding). For the most part everything snaps on. Break something? Call up Sennheiser and they'll send a spare part. Sennheisers are so notorious for this kind of construction that at some point some genius ordered HE60 spare parts and made his own out of them. HD580, HD580J, HD600, and HD650 parts are interchangeable for the most part, which helps their long service life. When HD580s break down some people order HD650 drivers and grills. When the paint chips off the headband on my HD600 I'm gonna order some HD580 light grey parts to get rid of the marble blue.

 

Basically, they're easy to service, so while some parts will need replacement, you can do so at home after getting the parts. The headband paint is the first to start wearing out, but unless you're going to be really, really, really bothered by the chipping paint - which happens along the edge first - you can get by for a long time. Heck you can just spary-paint it yourself (and the other plastic bits if they don't match), and if you really want the "Sennheiser" branding on it, that's when you buy a new one (note that there's at least one guy who had those letters printed then cut out so he can spray on one last coat of white to get those letters over his repainted headband). The other thing would be the cable, but for the most part, as long as you care for them well they'll last a long time. Replacements are cheap - if the $30 original parts seem too expensive for a too long cable, some sellers on Amazon and eBay have shorter cables for around the same price, with more overbuilt plugs on some of them (of course, the HD600 for example is a very compact 6.3mm+3.5mm combo). I'd worry more about constant removal of the cable as that can wear out the thin wires from the socket to the drivers, but newer HD650s and HD600s have been improved.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksweene5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

What are some alternative headphones that may live up to the 650s legendary sound, but with some improvement in reigning in the treble and feeling more premium/durable?

 

Try wearing them a little bit tighter. When you got them are the pads still stiff? Soften them up a bit by using them before buying an LCD-2, as the earpads wear out over time and the sound changes. You might be happy enough with how a properly broken in earpad can affect the treble, although do note that worn out earpads will boost treble peaks, so don't wear them too tight once you get the sound you like. Bend the metal frame outwards to loosen the clamp and then set the headband tighter (by the clicks indicating extension) than before to keep the drivers aligned to the same height as your ear canals.

 

And speaking of the LCD-2, there's one more reason why a Sennheiser feels "cheap" and why a "premium" hand feel isn't always good: weight. The LCD-2 is heavier because of the driver magnets, not the chassis, and apart from some cases where the gimbals came off, people tend to think they "feel" more premium thanks to the wood cups and the weight, until they have to listen to an entire album with them and then start complaining about their necks. You need a high-back chair with these so you can rest your head on it and therefore get the weight on the headrest and off your neck.

 

[SeaWo|f]

it also should be noted that the premium build -quality- of the lcd line metal/wood/leather has not translated into reliability. Stop by those threads and look at all the driver failures, the cracking of the wood around the minixlr connectors on the original design, or the angled connector pulling away from the wood on the new one. I'm sure there have been other issues, but those are the ones I know of.

I don't mean to yo be an audeze basher, and my next purchase is going to be a pair of lcd-3f because I love the sound. But if something is plastic does not mean it's going to fail and because it's metal it's going to last. How those materials are engineered molded and deigned to fit together matters as much as anything. Not to mention that parts you don't see, touch and feel are a huge factor not just in sound but also reliability.

 

[Ksweene5]

That was a really helpful series of comments. Honestly, I was a little put off by the weight - which I realize is not a solid criticism by itself. I was surprised to hear that even the 880's have more treble bias - based just on reviews I would have guessed the opposite. I am going to keep the Senn's - I really do enjoy listening to them and think they will only get better as I get more hours on them. 
 
I have heard Audeze cans are tiresome to wear, luckily that isn't an issue I'll have to deal with anytime soon. Until then I'll try to appreciate the weight of the 650s. Thanks 

 

[Rearwing]

Durable, repairable, excellent sq with the right amp, comfortable, modable, excellent sq...................whats not to like? And in comparison to Audeze, inexpensive!

 

[milosingh]

Almost everything else will likely be far brighter than HD 650s.

 

[NA Blur]

  Durable, repairable, excellent sq with the right amp, comfortable, modable, excellent sq...................whats not to like? And in comparison to Audeze, inexpensive!

+1

 

[thejammonster]

I was curious about the RSA Predator and the review on their site says it is sweet-sounding and tube-like. That doesn't seem to fit with the description of being bright with something like the HD650. I agree that AKG or BD will sound much brighter by comparison. The Fidelio X1/2 have a similar sound but are easier to drive than the HD650 so that may be your best bet if you change your mind.