[xenithon]

Hi all. I have three quick questions regarding the HagUSB:

1. how does it compare to other USB interfaces, in particular those with ASIO support (Edirol, M-Audio etc.)
2. does it provide bit perfect output (I assume via ASIO4ALL)?
3. does it suffer from any jitter (as I believe it has coax out only, no optical)?

Cheers,
X

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

I want to know too!

Bump for good Q.

 

[audioengr]

All USB converters suffer from some jitter. The magnitude depends on the chip used, the jitter of the clock used, the power supply noise and the board layout etc... Even though they all use PLL's, the jitter can be low compared to a conventional transport. Reclockers can be helpful with USB converters too.

 

[xenithon]

Hi there and thanks for the info. Essentially I need another interface as the Edirol will be going to another PC. Was thus wondering if the HagUSB is a worthy "upgrade". I do know, however, that it is limited to 16-bits.

 

[kimragone]

I just received a HagUsb and it does bit-perfect just fine using asio4all. However I keep getting pops and clicks from the USB connection and after messing with it for a couple of days, I've given up on it and will return it.

Kim

 

[xenithon]

Hmmm....interesting. I used to get pops and clicks with my previous USB interface which also used ASIO4ALL. Ended up being Cool 'n Quiet on my system - once I turned that off, all the artifacts dissappeared.

 

[EnOYiN]

I am starting to see the need for a good explanation thread on asio.

Oh well. The artifacts you mentioned (the pops and clicks) can be caused by 2 things. ( unless you count nails tapping on desks):

1.) Your hard drive.

2.) A too low latency.

Find out which one it is and then only then you can tell whether your device is just awfull or not.

 

[xenithon]

From what I understand, true ASIO talk directly to the hardware, bypassing the OS. In other words the application (e.g foobar) would talk directly to the ASIO device. Other methods piggyback on the WDM/kernel thus going through the Windows audio stack at some stage. This includes both WDM and KS IIRC.

I also read some threads at A-gon where many people have great success with the HagUSB, but some have pops/clicks/drop-outs. They said that it is caused by something like the clocks not "agreeing" between the HagUSB and the computer. If anyone knows about it more technically perhaps they could explain - I am afraid my knowledge is very limited in this respect.

Cheers,
X

 

[slwiser]

Now I remember, it was too low a latency problem on my last computer. But listening to music this should not be an issue setting it fairly high.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnOYiN /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am starting to see the need for a good explanation thread on asio. Oh well. The artifacts you mentioned (the pops and clicks) can be caused by 2 things. ( unless you count nails tapping on desks): 1.) Your hard drive. 2.) A too low latency. Find out which one it is and then only then you can tell whether your device is just awfull or not.

 

[EnOYiN]

I would like to refer to this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222959

I think I really should make a thread about asio with some neat pics. If I wasn't so extremly lazy it would've been here allready.

 

[xenithon]

BUMP.....I put this on the backburner for a while and have now regained interest. Anyone out there perhaps gotten a chance to compare the HagUSB to USB interfaces such as the Edirol UA-1EX or UA-5, M-Audio Transit or Audiophile USB, EMU 0404 USB etc??

Cheers,
X

 

[educator]

I would like to know how these devices-especially 0404 usb compare with the squeezebox as a transport. Is the network technology of the squeezebox superior to usb as implemented in these devices?

 

[Wavelength]

Gang,

I just want to clear up a few things for you;

Nothing writes directly to the hardware in a PC unless it has a custom driver and even these maynot. Most board level drivers do but USB especially ASIO does not. ASIO writes to the kernel streaming interface. Also available under foobar. Most other USB device drivers also talk via the kernel streaming to the USB port. Kernel streaming can be a problem and if you poke around the web you can see varying results and even lock up conditions using this interface.

I would have to pull out my USB Analyzer for the 0404 but since it uses a custom driver I would say it proabably uses BLOCK mode to transfer data to it. I pulled mine apart and it does have very good oscillators for 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96. But I really don't have time to look at it any further.

Jitter... First off USB does not have jitter like SPDIF devices because there is no hard clock associated with the interface. There is however "intrinsic" jitter which happens in all serial dac devices. In USB land this can higher or lower depending on implementation and even software controlling the USB side of the equation. Many of the simple PCM270x devices have jitter because of their PLL and even because of their DAC (being that it is a switching dac and cannot be turned off). Devices based on the TAS1020/TUSB3200 such as mine, Steve's and the Benchmark are completely programable and each one can differ very much.

One thing about PC's and USB is the device driver that controls the hardware part of the system controller can make a big difference. I was running Bootcamp v1 on my Macbook and XP Pro and it tested about as good as my 2 other pc's (hush and my comercial pc I designed in my past). Then v1.1 came out with new drivers and the Bootcamp really stepped up and surpassed the other two. The problem here is that it is a company thing. Microsoft does their job and asks the maker of the PC to do theirs. If done well then it is well done if not it can make you experience less than stellar.

Later, back to work
Gordon

 

[xenithon]

Hi Gordon and thanks for the info (and the fantastic products which I aspire to get one day, especially the Brick or Cosecant)! However, I was under the impression that USB hardware with true ASIO capability allow the application to speak DIRECTLY to the hardware, bypassing KS altogether. As an example, the Edirol UA-1EX I currently use, as in my sig.....I thought that it is only the faux-ASIO drivers such as ASIO4ALL which - underneath it all - are simply wrappers for KS, akin to your explanation above. Please correct me if I am wrong as this has piqued my interest

 

[MWALK]

Hummmmm, so should my MacBook Pro running WinXP via bootcamp allow my Cosecant to sound as good as using iTunes out of MBPro Mac OS?