[afobisme]

out of curiousity, how would you guys who have heard both the go vibe 5 and total airhead/bithead rate each of the amps, comparatively?

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigger In addition, your opinions seem to change as frequently as the weather. You have gone from liking the Go-Vibe to not liking it, modifying it, liking it again, ordering a second sample, cancelling the order, not liking it, modding it again, liking it and finally ...........not liking it. whew.......

Well, Norm, that's not precisely true, ain't it?

(ordering a second sample, and cancelling the order... what I remember is that you cancelled it for me due to improbable suspects about "the reason why I would have wanted a second amp that I didn't like in the first place")


As regards my choice of chips, how about that AD8397 + OPA551 Go-Vibe v5 you were planning?

You even had ordered the OPA551's upon my suggestion, if I recall correctly (I do) ... Well, I subsequently found out that the OPA551 was less than optimal - the THS4051 is, both technically and sonically, better suited. The result is very interesting, unmistakeably somewhat closer to natural (and emotional) sounding than the standard op-amps, although I still somehow feel like it's compromised at the start by the particular 3 channel design variation of this amp. Note that I dislike the 3 channel thing in general, and I'm not alone. See Rescue Toaster's posts, http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=202577


Btw, you know, contradiction is inherent in human nature. And the intelligent people can change opinion. Mine, however, were more oscillations of opinion, not reversals, caused by a "work in progress" situation - and by a inspirational, unorderly way of proceeding in my experiments. Now my opinions are much firmer (you read bits of them in the last couple of pages of http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196170 ).


And generally speaking my effort is not to convince people (that's rather someone else's

); it's, if anything, to encourage the newbies towards discovering themselves a finer conception of "good sound" than what they're exposed to all time. I may be wrong, I may be right to feel like doing so. Certainly my taste is proudly not committed to that mediocre, commonplace audiophile's cause and, at the same time, opinion about "neutrality" and "accuracy" that I've been reading about till nausea here around.

 

[afobisme]

well, perhaps (im not trying to be offensive here), but norm is a bit fed up with your iteration, reiteration, and then some more reiteration that his amp isn't of quality. i mean, yeah, say it once, maybe even twice or a third time, but let's not make it a mantra? i mean, this is sort of a small operational business norm's got here, and you're um.. "trashing" his product (one that many, if not most, think is a great product)

as for that contradiction is inherent in human nature.. yeah, ok, that's probably true. you can definitely change your mind, and it probably takes gutts to admit it when society isn't so accepting when you do... but this is something different. it's not entierly subject (sound quality), there's a base for a guiding standard (which makes it sort of objective).

also, when you change your mind, it's not from point A to point B, then from point B to point A. i think that "contradiction is inherent in human nature" thing is more like a progressive change. you go from point A to B to C to D etc. what you have been doing is sort of similar, in effect, to a "he loves, he loves me not." no offense, but after realizing your constant change of heart, i put very little weight on your opinion (sorry, im blunt.. don't mean to be rude to you or anything).

that's not to say that i'm biasly defending norm and his product, but just my, as i see it, unbias perspective.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afobisme as for that contradiction is inherent in human nature.. yeah, ok, that's probably true. you can definitely change your mind, and it probably takes gutts to admit it when society isn't so accepting when you do... but this is something different. it's not entierly subject (sound quality), there's a base for a guiding standard (which makes it sort of objective).

I don't think I've ever changed my mind that much about Norm's amp.

I agree with you about the degree of subjectivity in audio. It's true that all's subjective & confused, at the beginning of the road, but at the end of it, things necessarily tend to objectivity-univocalness. IMO anyway.

What you have to take into account here, I believe, is also the type of folks that come back to head-fi daily. I think they're the geeks, mostly. The audiophiles.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afobisme also, when you change your mind, it's not from point A to point B, then from point B to point A. i think that "contradiction is inherent in human nature" thing is more like a progressive change. you go from point A to B to C to D etc. what you have been doing is sort of similar, in effect, to a "he loves, he loves me not." no offense, but after realizing your constant change of heart, i put very little weight on your opinion (sorry, im blunt.. don't mean to be rude to you or anything).

No offense meant on my part, too... That's not a problem for me. But it shows to me that you've read me a bit hastily and taken me a bit roughly, as in, "on" and "off". Perhaps, as a partial explanation, I come across that way due to my imperfect handling of English language & my inclination towards using "strong colors" in speech.

Quote:

that's not to say that i'm biasly defending norm and his product, but just my, as i see it, unbias perspective.

I also think that my perspective is unbiased.

 

[tigger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea Well, Norm, that's not precisely true, ain't it? (ordering a second sample, and cancelling the order... what I remember is that you cancelled it for me due to improbable suspects about "the reason why I would have wanted a second amp that I didn't like in the first place")

Not my recollection at all. You asked for a refund after I questioned why you switched from a second Go-Vibe V5 order to the PIMETA I had for sale.
My thoughts were simply; why order a PIMETA when you obviously have the skills to build your own? Perhaps some mis-interpretation on both our parts!


Quote:

As regards my choice of chips, how about that AD8397 + OPA551 Go-Vibe v5 you were planning? You even had ordered the OPA551's upon my suggestion, if I recall correctly (I do) ... Well, I subsequently found out that the OPA551 was less than optimal - the THS4051 is, both technically and sonically, better suited. The result is very interesting, unmistakeably somewhat closer to natural (and emotional) sounding than the standard op-amps, although I still somehow feel like it's compromised at the start by the particular 3 channel design variation of this amp. Note that I dislike the 3 channel thing in general, and I'm not alone. See Rescue Toaster's posts, http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=202577

I never planned to introduce such an amp unless I was satisfied with the results. I only shared my thoughts with you since you had tried a modified Go-Vibe V5. If you remember, I stated the amp was to be tested before I could consider selling such a variation.
I have run the tests, and AD8397, or it's derivatives, is not recommended by me for use in the Go-Vibe V5 due to the possibility of instability under certain conditions. OPA551 in the ground channel is useless.
I have run experiments with many chips you haven't even thought of, and in my opinion, nothing beats the LM6171/72 combination for sound quality and incidentally, battery life.
You obviously gravitate to a different sonic perspective, and that's fine. I would be really naive to think everyone should like my design.
So you dislike all 3 channel amps, fine

Quote:

Btw, you know, contradiction is inherent in human nature. And the intelligent people can change opinion. Mine, however, were more oscillations of opinion, not reversals, caused by a "work in progress" situation - and by a inspirational, unorderly way of proceeding in my experiments. Now my opinions are much firmer (you read bits of them in the last couple of pages of http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196170 ).

True. I've read enough of your posts to know you change your mind at least on a weekly basis.

Quote:

And generally speaking my effort is not to convince people (that's rather someone else's ); it's, if anything, to encourage the newbies towards discovering themselves a finer conception of "good sound" than what they're exposed to all time. I may be wrong, I may be right to feel like doing so. Certainly my taste is proudly not committed to that mediocre, commonplace audiophile's cause and, at the same time, opinion about "neutrality" and "accuracy" that I've been reading about till nausea here around.

It comes accross as coercion, Andrea rather than advice.

Anyway, I am finished here. Have a nice day.

 

[dw6928]

if Andrea has an "unbiased perspective", I think we must use differerent dictionaries. it almost seems personal and vindictive against Norm and the GV5
certainly lightyears away from "informative" to the newbies. Lightyears. Perhaps a new target might be in order?

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigger Not my recollection at all. You asked for a refund after I questioned why you switched from a second Go-Vibe V5 order to the PIMETA I had for sale. My thoughts were simply; why order a PIMETA when you obviously have the skills to build your own? Perhaps some mis-interpretation on both our parts!

Not my recollection at all.

I was puzzled and confused at your suspicion, which you hadn't motivated at all. So I wrote you back with, more or less, "...but how suspicious you are!" "I like your particular Pimeta build, and like the convenience of an amp with a solid aluminium case and RCA inputs, and at $130 it is tempting. That's it!" "Of course if this wasn't possible I'd be happy with the AD8397 Go-Vibe nonetheless!"

And that was it. Then I wrote you another short email where I said, more or less, "Norm, if you mind the fact that I'm not enthusiastic about your amp in its current configuration, and I'm not willing to recommend it, then it'll be fine anyway for me if we just leave it at it and I have a refund!"


A few days after, I received a refund with not a word of answer from you. I let the reader be the judge.

 

[jrosenth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigger It comes accross as coercion, Andrea rather than advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dw6928 it almost seems personal and vindictive against Norm and the GV5 certainly lightyears away from "informative" to the newbies. Lightyears.

Agreed.

I'm thinking of ordering a go-vibe and would like to see some posts about it without an automatic response about how modding it is better, using this or that opamp is better, or a Xenos is superior. That's definitely a minority opinion and the volume and frequency with which it's declared doesn't change that fact.

For those with go-vibes please continue to post impressions even if they will be met with the aforementioned de facto mantra. For instance, I'd love to know if the standard gain Go-vibe, which I'm considering to use with an HD-580, can also drive the cx-300 without hiss.

Thanks for the product Norm, and don't let Andrea bait you into a black hole.

 

[Andrea]

Btw, yep ,the AD8397 wasn't stable with the OPA551 in the ground channel "under certain conditions". I experimented that, too. This looks perfectly fixed with the THS4051. Of course, I don't have (and I'd have no reason to have) your test equipment. At any rate, since you've tested so many chips, have you tried with the THS4051?


However, knowing that you've found issues with the AD8397, I'm twice as much happy that it has ended that way. Have a nice day

 

[Andrea]

Of course, even though I know I have a right to differ both from Norm's tastes and from his handling of my disagreement, I have no hope to compete with Norm here. So I'll leave you guys to your confident faith that everything goes for the better - the majority said so.