[Metron]

Without intending to start a cable discussion, why do you think a cheap cable is satisfactory

It’s a misunderstanding. I did not state or imply that I’m in favour of cheap interconnect cables. I think that cables do make a difference within reason but that their cost should be analogous to the overall cost of the components they’re used on. A Gustard U18 costs $500 and it’s likely/expected to be used on $300-$1200 DACs, so a $75 or less (depending on special offers etc) coax/toslink cable is sufficiently good quality for such a system. E.g., an Audioquest Cinnamon coax or a QED Performance Graphite optical are high quality cables, there’s no need to go crazy.

 

[Crypt Keeper]

U18 Is very special… I’m not even sure if audio-gd DI-20HE will better it in my setup due to the sine/square wave clock signal req… it needs very good cables . I’m using it with AS Silver signature USB, Tubulus Concentus i2s, SOtm dCBL-BNC 50 and AQ Dragon AC cord clone…

 

[Jake2]

Tony is the proprietor of Coherent Systems. The work is labour-intensive because of the compact nature of the U18's build. I have seen the measurements of before and after noise levels and can attest to the 2.5X reduction in noise. Far more important, it sounds like an upmarket model now with greatly enhanced soundstaging, detail and dynamics.

Is it worth it? Only you can know. It certainly was for me.

Hi Martin,

I recently posted a question on the U18 in the DI20HE thread of all places (have been following an external clocking conversation there), asking questions I realise you may be uniquely well placed to answer:

• How much does using a PS Audio Powerplant 3 improve the U18, does it reach or exceed the level of the DI20HE when both are used with a quality external clock? Of course I wouldn’t just used the PP3 for the U18, but let’s start there.
• The mods you describe, how much further do they take it?

My use case is a very recently built up and still evolving system… currently HQplayer on Mac Mini M1 > Ifi Zen Stream > U18 > Gustard R26/SMSL VMV D2 > placeholder amp > Focal Sopras, with the LHY OCK-1 clocking both the DACs & U18. And a few ifi Power X’s in the mix.

 

[T 1000]

It’s a misunderstanding. I did not state or imply that I’m in favour of cheap interconnect cables. I think that cables do make a difference within reason but that their cost should be analogous to the overall cost of the components they’re used on. A Gustard U18 costs $500 and it’s likely/expected to be used on $300-$1200 DACs, so a $75 or less (depending on special offers etc) coax/toslink cable is sufficiently good quality for such a system. E.g., an Audioquest Cinnamon coax or a QED Performance Graphite optical are high quality cables, there’s no need to go crazy.

Of course, but regardless of the price of the component, everyone will spend as much as they can for a cable (any), and better cables bring more.
The cables in my system (including the power strip) are 2/3 of the total value, and I know that I invested that money in better components, and with worse cables, I wouldn't have the sound quality I have now.
And I still have a lot of investment in eliminating various "junk" that is currently entering my system.
It's fascinating, how much an ordinary system can sound HI-END

In response to your comment, it's just a view from different perspectives, and we're both right

For cheap deals, Supra, Mogami...are the ones to consider.

Be in a good mood

 

[Metron]

Of course, but regardless of the price of the component, everyone will spend as much as they can for a cable (any), and better cables bring more.
The cables in my system (including the power strip) are 2/3 of the total value, and I know that I invested that money in better components, and with worse cables, I wouldn't have the sound quality I have now.
And I still have a lot of investment in eliminating various "junk" that is currently entering my system.
It's fascinating, how much an ordinary system can sound HI-END

In response to your comment, it's just a view from different perspectives, and we're both right

For cheap deals, Supra, Mogami...are the ones to consider.

Be in a good mood

I think we’re both on the same side on this matter. However, in the scheme of things, cables have the least impact on the chain compared to the rest, so I invest on cables according to the impact the make, around 10%. Spending too much on cables makes little sense when funds can be invested on a better DAC or Amplifier, or even a power supply. I’ve seen people with low mid-tier or entry-level systems spending hundreds of dollars on cables, it’s just inefficient, truly wasted money.
(Now, I think we are way off topic on this thread, so I’d better stop here.)

 

[MartinWT]

• How much does using a PS Audio Powerplant 3 improve the U18, does it reach or exceed the level of the DI20HE when both are used with a quality external clock? Of course I wouldn’t just used the PP3 for the U18, but let’s start there.
• The mods you describe, how much further do they take it?

Hi Jake

• I can't easily answer that question as the P3 (and P10) have been in my system for a number of years. Therefore, the U18 is new to the system, not the regenerator. I will say, generally, that having my system running solely on regenerated power is essential for achieving the calibre of sound I get. I would never build a system without regenerated power.
• The Coherent modifications to the U18 made a fairly significant improvement to an already good DDC. I have never heard a DI-20HE in my system so cannot comment, but others put a fully burned-in U18 at a similar level so I would expect the Coherent modified U18 to push it hard.

 

[Jake2]

Hi Jake

• I can't easily answer that question as the P3 (and P10) have been in my system for a number of years. Therefore, the U18 is new to the system, not the regenerator. I will say, generally, that having my system running solely on regenerated power is essential for achieving the calibre of sound I get. I would never build a system without regenerated power.
• The Coherent modifications to the U18 made a fairly significant improvement to an already good DDC. I have never heard a DI-20HE in my system so cannot comment, but others put a fully burned-in U18 at a similar level so I would expect the Coherent modified U18 to push it hard.

Thanks Martin. I find I keep coming back to the idea of regeneration for the front end at least, as I definitely experience the phenomenon of a perceived higher quality, smoother sound late at night, though that may be partly due to the IPA or pinot at hand.

 

[MartinWT]

I find I keep coming back to the idea of regeneration for the front end at least, as I definitely experience the phenomenon of a perceived higher quality, smoother sound late at night, though that may be partly due to the IPA or pinot at hand.

The P3 is a great regenerator for source components and I would say that's where the greatest bang for buck lies. I use a P10 for my power amp, which is best kept separate anyway.

A good IPA to hand is always an excellent enhancement for the music!

 

[jgwtriode]

It’s a misunderstanding. I did not state or imply that I’m in favour of cheap interconnect cables. I think that cables do make a difference within reason but that their cost should be analogous to the overall cost of the components they’re used on. A Gustard U18 costs $500 and it’s likely/expected to be used on $300-$1200 DACs, so a $75 or less (depending on special offers etc) coax/toslink cable is sufficiently good quality for such a system. E.g., an Audioquest Cinnamon coax or a QED Performance Graphite optical are high quality cables, there’s no need to go crazy.

Yeah sort of makes sense, but you would tend to find scale of economies and scalibility of audio components do not always correlate.

I run a few crazy things in front of my DAC that are disproportionate to the cost. I have a JCAT USB XE card with a Wywires Diamond USB Cable. $1700 cable it is much better than their $1000 dollar cable. That goes into my U18. The I2S cable is quite good but only $200.00. And of course the X26 Pro is 1500 with a 500 dollar EVS modification. I Run $1000 dollar Wywires Platinum power cords into them. Why?

As Alex, the owner suggests power cords can make a bigger diffrence then your other cables. I have found that to be surpisingly true. And here is the kicker. MY real love is my ZMF VC's with a $2700 OTL headphone amp. While I am waiting for my headphone cable to be repaired I am listening to this through a $500 pair of desktop Swan m200 Mk3+'s. These convert analog signal back to digital. All inputs run their 96k/24bit internal DAC. Yup and the sound still substanially improved with each of these upgrades.

I frequently listen to them even when the headphone system is up. And oh yeah the signal is being fed to them by an 1800 dollar pair of Wywires interconnects. What's the point. Crazy how well the swans scale with all this in front of them. It may not make dollar sense/cents, but it makes sense to my ears. Sufficiently good can be surprisingly limiting!

Nonsense, it may not make fiscal cents, but it makes audio sense!

Happy listening

jgwtriode

 

[milkdudd]

A good IPA to hand is always an excellent enhancement for the music!

Good advice but if you add a couple shots of tequila you'll find it widens and deepens the sound stage. I'm saying this tongue in cheek but I'm not 100% sure it's not true!

 

[jgwtriode]

No doubt! Make an audiophile version, some gold and silver dust. They put it in food and supplements and some graphene, they put that in vaccines now. And that's got to be better somehow and of course it will cost significantly more!

 

[Metron]

Yeah sort of makes sense, but you would tend to find scale of economies and scalibility of audio components do not always correlate.

I run a few crazy things in front of my DAC that are disproportionate to the cost. I have a JCAT USB XE card with a Wywires Diamond USB Cable. $1700 cable it is much better than their $1000 dollar cable. That goes into my U18. The I2S cable is quite good but only $200.00. And of course the X26 Pro is 1500 with a 500 dollar EVS modification. I Run $1000 dollar Wywires Platinum power cords into them. Why?

As Alex, the owner suggests power cords can make a bigger diffrence then your other cables. I have found that to be surpisingly true. And here is the kicker. MY real love is my ZMF VC's with a $2700 OTL headphone amp. While I am waiting for my headphone cable to be repaired I am listening to this through a $500 pair of desktop Swan m200 Mk3+'s. These convert analog signal back to digital. All inputs run their 96k/24bit internal DAC. Yup and the sound still substanially improved with each of these upgrades.

I frequently listen to them even when the headphone system is up. And oh yeah the signal is being fed to them by an 1800 dollar pair of Wywires interconnects. What's the point. Crazy how well the swans scale with all this in front of them. It may not make dollar sense/cents, but it makes sense to my ears. Sufficiently good can be surprisingly limiting!

Nonsense, it may not make fiscal cents, but it makes audio sense!

Happy listening

jgwtriode

It might sound a bit too technical but whatever floats your boat.

 

[jgwtriode]

Hardly, right now far and away the most musically involving system I have heard in quite awhile. Although my ZMF's will sound much better when my headphone cable has been repaired. And yet it does all the technicalities extremely well. And what exactly is the sound of too technical out of curiosity. At some point in the process you learn that those allocating percentages to spend on things is all very practical but has nothing to do with how things actually work or sound together. After 50 years of playing with audio I have learned that above all else. "Use your ears more importantly trust your ears"; spend what you can, but always try to listen to things better than what you can afford! So you know what the best sounds like and DIY as much as you can! Look for maximum value like the Gustard stuff, but don't shortchange what you spend just to save a few bucks or even a lot of bucks! Occasionally indulge beyond what you probably should just to treat your ears and gain some real perspective about why certain things do justify their cost!

Go back to the 80's and read Julian Hirsch,Stereo Review, "Old Tin Ears" himself. He always spent at least a third of the review harping on his measurements and ranting about Hirsch Houk Labratories test equipment. Famous for always stating it sounded as we expected! Doubt he could hear a thing or even bothered to listen. He already knew how it would sound based on the price and the design and his preconceived notions. Yet he was a quote "Expert"!

There you go sums that whole concept up quite nicely!

High Fidelity was by far the better magazine back in the day. At least they tried to subjectively review along with the measurements!


Happy listening

 

[Mr Brett]

...it may not make fiscal cents, but it makes audio sense!

I think that rings true for quite a lot of what we do in our hobby!

 

[ProLoL]

????

Neither my U16 nor my U18 ever had any pops or clicks in my system.

The U16 is notorious of pops and clicks via I2S, and from early impressions someone wrote that the U18 didn't fix it. I did love my U16 for the sound but the glitches were unbearable.
Can early U16 users confirm that the U18 is fixed in that regard?