[Dandoudou]

Quite the Christmas tree!

I have the same tree in my setup!

 

[bodiebill2]

Did you try playing with no upsampling on R-8?

Asking, as it is agreed that Audio GD DACs do not require upsampling, user reports are mixed on this matter. Even if upsampling is prefered, benefit is minimal. Your answer would reveal whether you prefer more analytical to the natural sound.

I ended up setting the R8HE Mk2 to N0 or N1 (NOS style) and upsampling to DSD512 with Audirvana. Upsampling PCM did not make much difference to my ears. With this DAC I clearly prefer DSD512 (via DI20HE) to all other formats.

This may seem similar to @Dandoudou 's findings with the R26, however with the A26 I like PCM via the DI20HE better than DSD512 via LAN. Maybe it is a difference between the R26 and A26, or maybe just my ears.

Here Audirvana Studio sounds clearly better than HQPlayer, surprisingly so...

 

[Dandoudou]

Maybe it is a difference between the R26 and A26

Even if they have the same streamer, they are really very different DACs.

 

[George Hincapie]

Even if they have the same streamer, they are really very different DACs.

Not a surprise. Different topologies. One is R2R and the other is DS.

 

[sajunky]

I ended up setting the R8HE Mk2 to N0 or N1 (NOS style) and upsampling to DSD512 with Audirvana. Upsampling PCM did not make much difference to my ears. With this DAC I clearly prefer DSD512 (via DI20HE) to all other formats.

This may seem similar to @Dandoudou 's findings with the R26, however with the A26 I like PCM via the DI20HE better than DSD512 via LAN. Maybe it is a difference between the R26 and A26, or maybe just my ears.

Here Audirvana Studio sounds clearly better than HQPlayer, surprisingly so...

N0 and N1 modes do some filtering in a DAC, so from a purely technical view it is better to use true NOS mode and adjust filter parameters in Audirvana to suit your needs. Maybe R-8 needs more burning...

Not suggesting HQPlayer, I am one who suspect it is doing something unofficial to please customers. However I made tests with PGGB resampling. PGGB in my opinion does excellent job. I tested only top quality settings for off-line processing, but there is free on-line version add-on for Foobar 2000. Adjust settings to get no more than 30 seconds delay before music starts (which should be tolerated, as it affects the first track on your playlist or when changing tracks). Better quality settings gives longer delay.

 

[bodiebill2]

Not a surprise. Different topologies. One is R2R and the other is DS.

Actually hybrid:

 

[sajunky]

Actually hybrid:

Are you sure? Hybrid DAC has a separate decoding path for a low-bit and a high-bit order section, usually one is delta-sigma, other is a ladder type. Here is shown a single delta-sigma path.

Gustard use word 'hybrid' for their output stage, in this terminology 'hybrid' means a mixed opamp and discrete design.

 

[bodiebill2]

Are you sure? Hybrid DAC has a separate decoding path for a low-bit and a high-bit order section, usually one is delta-sigma, other is a ladder type. Here is shown a single delta-sigma path.

Gustard use word 'hybrid' for their output stage, in this terminology 'hybrid' means a mixed opamp and discrete design.

Hybrid was my term. I may not have used it properly. I do understand that the new chip combo means a deviation from the regular D/S design, although the technical details are a bit beyond me.

 

[sajunky]

Hybrid was my term. I may not have used it properly. I do understand that the new chip combo means a deviation from the regular D/S design, although the technical details are a bit beyond me.

Evolution, still regular Delta-Sigma.

 

[Kaere]

I don't know why you use the oversample? it distorts the result
When you use a CD player, there is no oversample...

 

[Dandoudou]

I don't know why you use the oversample? it distorts the result
When you use a CD player, there is no oversample...

Uplsampling is a necessary step for a good D/A conversion by D/S DACs.
When you use a CD player, the digital 16-44.1 sound of the CD is upsampled by the built-in DAC of the CD player, or by the external DAC to which the CD player is connected, ahead of its conversion to analog sound. In this case, the sound is upsampled by the chip of the DAC.

The problem is that high quality upsampling requires a lot of computing power, and the chip inside the DAC does not have the computing power of a gaming PC.
So, when you feed your D/S DAC with bit-perfect sound, its chip upsamples it at low quality with algorithms that do not require a lot of computing power.
If you upsample the sound with your computer and send it to the DAC, you can upsample the sound at high quality with more demanding algorithms.
So, in both cases, the digital sound is upsampled ahead of the D/A conversion. The higher the quality of the upsampling the better the D/A conversion, and the analog sound that you hear from your speakers is more refined.

Unlike D/S DACS, the R2R DACs do need to upsample the sound for a good D/A conversion.
Nevertheless, if you feed them with high quality upsampled sound, their D/A conversion is optimized to some degree, depending on the DAC model.

 

[Kaere]

That why I said it. I use a drive, so wihout dac, on my R26... 16/44 out from the drive, 16/44 in the R26 so bit perfect
So yes, we could oversample with the cpu, but finally, it's not bit perferct, even if the dac drive the oversample perfectly!

 

[Dandoudou]

That why I said it. I use a drive, so wihout dac, on my R26... 16/44 out from the drive, 16/44 in the R26 so bit perfect
So yes, we could oversample with the cpu, but finally, it's not bit perferct, even if the dac drive the oversample perfectly!

Both your Pontius and your R26 will sound better, if you feed them with upsample the sound by a good application.
The improvement is not great, like with a D/S DAC, but it is still appreciable.

 

[Kaere]

I will try it... I use Foobar on Pc

 

[sajunky]

Unlike D/S DACS, the R2R DACs do need to upsample the sound for a good D/A conversion.
Nevertheless, if you feed them with high quality upsampled sound, their D/A conversion is optimized to some degree, depending on the DAC model.

Actually a trend of upsampling on the PC started with DS DACs. On some chips-dacs it is possible to bypass internal oversampling, replacing it with better quality with great results. Chord is an example, even offering external upsampling device.

Upsampling R2R DACs is a latest trend, popularised by Holo Audio and HQPlayer marketers. Mechanism is the same, efficiency doubtful. R2R DAC does not need upsampling, NOS feature allows playing any format at the original sampling rate. Ladder switching time is limited, with increased sampling rate transitions are longer relative to the clock cycle. Upsampling create effect of randomisation of ladder errors, bluring output state, but in my opinion it is not the best way to deal with errors. Made my own tests using PGGB, it is not worth.